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I wouldn't trust that Chilton's to much. Look at the fuel pump psi in the graph. Might be ok for carbed cars but I wouldn't use those settings for a turbo. Turbos are 12 degrees, 55psi with the vac line disconnected for fuel psi.

Run a teir1 premium fuel. Previous owner on my old glht ran the cheapest premium he could find. I pulled the head off a couple months after buying it from him and it had almost 1/4 inch of carbon on everything. Ran Chevron through it from when I bought it and about a year later pulled the head again to convert to t2 and all the carbon was gone.
 

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OMG, I never thought the 1985 would be different than the others. Well that does change things, but my IAC is still not doing anything (i.e., turning on the A/C has no effect), and I don't have a vacuum advance. 12 degrees BTDC basically doesn't work at all, at the base idle.

@GLHNSLHT2 the usual behavior I see is that I pull the coolant temp sensor after the car has fully warmed up, and the IAC bumps idle up to 2000 RPM and disables the timing advance.
Check the last pic I sent it says you have to apply 12 V to something to get it to work.
 

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I wouldn't trust that Chilton's to much. Look at the fuel pump psi in the graph. Might be ok for carbed cars but I wouldn't use those settings for a turbo. Turbos are 12 degrees, 55psi with the vac line disconnected for fuel psi.

Run a teir1 premium fuel. Previous owner on my old glht ran the cheapest premium he could find. I pulled the head off a couple months after buying it from him and it had almost 1/4 inch of carbon on everything. Ran Chevron through it from when I bought it and about a year later pulled the head again to convert to t2 and all the carbon was gone.
It has a little note thing on the side for turbos where it says the correct fuel pressure it's not easy to digitize books.
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85 New Yorker 2.2 T1, multiple red 1991 Spirit R/T's, lots of bits and pieces
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Discussion Starter · #64 ·
I think that's for the idle reset procedure. The LM detects whether or not the IAC is working, and I can move it manually back and forth with DC voltage, but the ECU never actually changes the IAC's position, even when trying to do the reset procedure. It doesn't look like there is a fuse for it.

Considering that the IAC used to have a mind of its own, I'm leaning more towards the LM being faulty. If I can set ignition timing, I'll happily disregard the IAC. It idles acceptably well under all loads and temperatures.
 

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I think that's for the idle reset procedure. The LM detects whether or not the IAC is working, and I can move it manually back and forth with DC voltage, but the ECU never actually changes the IAC's position, even when trying to do the reset procedure. It doesn't look like there is a fuse for it.

Considering that the IAC used to have a mind of its own, I'm leaning more towards the LM being faulty. If I can set ignition timing, I'll happily disregard the IAC. It idles acceptably well under all loads and temperatures.
Test that wire it talks about for voltage if there's none then the wiring or the computer is bad
 

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Discussion Starter · #68 ·
Well that was a frustrating couple hours. I have the Chilton's as well. It seems to be a different revision, but it's pretty much the same instructions here. It says to unhook the vacuum advance from the distributor (which I don't have) or the spark advance transducer (which I don't have). The emissions sticker on the hood says 12 degrees at 800 RPM with transmission in drive. Doing exactly that, the timing mark is all over the place. If I unhook the coolant temp sensor, it becomes stable at about 16 degrees. If I try to retard the timing to 12, it starts running rough and the RPM's drop dramatically. Getting to 10 with this method appears to be impossible. If I keep the sensor plugged in and put the car in drive and idle at 800, I can get to to be in the ballpark of 12, but the moment I give it any throttle to take off, it cuts out hard. Leaving it around 16, it detonates hard at half-throttle half-boost but not at full-throttle full-boost, regardless of RPM. (Light-footing never pings.) Just to be sure, I checked the valve timing again, and it's right on. None of this makes any sense, unless the LM is screwy, which now seems exceedingly likely. It's like the car has a conscience and is saying, "Well, if you really love me, you'll pay for the surgery I want."

Ok. deep breath Let me see if I got this right...

Pull the head, intake, exhaust, and turbo in one piece. Install roller-cam head, one-piece intake, matching exhaust, and Mitsubishi turbo (because I prefer quick spooling over high boost). Move old fuel injector wire harness to new fuel rail. Replace questionable LM with hard to find LM and add a few wires. I don't have a sacrificial harness, so I'll have to source my own pins. Re-wire TPS and AIS on one-piece to connect to LM. Optionally add all intercooler plumbing.
 

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Well that was a frustrating couple hours. I have the Chilton's as well. It seems to be a different revision, but it's pretty much the same instructions here. It says to unhook the vacuum advance from the distributor (which I don't have) or the spark advance transducer (which I don't have). The emissions sticker on the hood says 12 degrees at 800 RPM with transmission in drive. Doing exactly that, the timing mark is all over the place. If I unhook the coolant temp sensor, it becomes stable at about 16 degrees. If I try to retard the timing to 12, it starts running rough and the RPM's drop dramatically. Getting to 10 with this method appears to be impossible. If I keep the sensor plugged in and put the car in drive and idle at 800, I can get to to be in the ballpark of 12, but the moment I give it any throttle to take off, it cuts out hard. Leaving it around 16, it detonates hard at half-throttle half-boost but not at full-throttle full-boost, regardless of RPM. (Light-footing never pings.) Just to be sure, I checked the valve timing again, and it's right on. None of this makes any sense, unless the LM is screwy, which now seems exceedingly likely. It's like the car has a conscience and is saying, "Well, if you really love me, you'll pay for the surgery I want."

Ok. deep breath Let me see if I got this right...

Pull the head, intake, exhaust, and turbo in one piece. Install roller-cam head, one-piece intake, matching exhaust, and Mitsubishi turbo (because I prefer quick spooling over high boost). Move old fuel injector wire harness to new fuel rail. Replace questionable LM with hard to find LM and add a few wires. I don't have a sacrificial harness, so I'll have to source my own pins. Re-wire TPS and AIS on one-piece to connect to LM. Optionally add all intercooler plumbing.
Maybe HEP or trigger wheel on distro is junk?
 

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85 New Yorker 2.2 T1, multiple red 1991 Spirit R/T's, lots of bits and pieces
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Discussion Starter · #70 ·
Maybe HEP or trigger wheel on distro is junk?
I just replaced it last year. The old one threw a code. It's Mopar NOS. It's a 1984 HEP, too. That threw me off when I first had to replace it. This is a 1985 car, but the HEP and IAS were for 1984. (I think the manufacture month for this car was October, IIRC, so it shouldn't have any leftovers from 1984 in it.)
 

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I had issues with timing, it would be at 12, then jump all over. I rechecked my cam timing and the distributor timing, and it was one tooth off. Yours is acting just like mine, I wonder if your distributor is one tooth off? One tooth forward or backward it will run fine, but idle erratically, and hard to time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #72 ·
I'm not sure how to check cam timing any better than I have already. I pop the plug off of the timing cover and stick my screwdriver into the timing mark on the sprocket, and it's dead-center in the hole. I pull the distributor out, and it's perfectly horizontal to the engine. I check the timing mark on the flywheel, and it's at 0. It would sure explain my problem, but it doesn't seem to be the cause in this case.
 

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I'm not sure how to check cam timing any better than I have already. I pop the plug off of the timing cover and stick my screwdriver into the timing mark on the sprocket, and it's dead-center in the hole. I pull the distributor out, and it's perfectly horizontal to the engine. I check the timing mark on the flywheel, and it's at 0. It would sure explain my problem, but it doesn't seem to be the cause in this case.
If you can't turn the distributor enough to get it at 12 then something's wrong electronically maybe
 

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I am going to suggest, do not be mentally stuck on "The timing MUST be at 12 degrees, that is what the manual says." Throw the timing light out, and listen to your engine. Turn the distributor to find your engines 'happy spot'. These are very aged machines, tolerances change, as with many other things. I enjoy watching Uncle Tony, and has alot of good advice we can use on our machines. Here is a video that can explain it better - https://youtu.be/kAgsMzAxaac

When you find where your engine runs good by listening and observing, look at the position of the distributor. This will give you a clue if your timing is off. This was the clue that told me my timing was off, my distributor was cranked clockwise so far I could not turn it anymore.
 

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Discussion Starter · #75 ·
I've got a few updates on this car, as well as a next stage.

I replaced the leaky power steering hose and replaced all the seals on the AC system. They're now working great! It also solved a mystery. The IAC seemed to be malfunctioning when I got the car. It would keep ramping the RPM's up to alarming speeds, unless the A/C was switched on, and it would gradually drop RPM's until normal. Unplugging the coolant temp sensor didn't seem to have any effect on the idle speed, and the IAC reset procedure was impossible.

It turns out that if the A/C system has some charge, it raises the idle. If it has NO charge, it never raises the idle, even if it's supposed to. If it has a normal charge (where the clutch stays engaged), the IAC works perfectly. I think this is a year-specific problem.

The previous owner of this car turns 100 years old tomorrow, and I plan to visit him with the New Yorker. I was going to see him today, but the cooling fan seized up and smoked pretty bad. Two bolts, problem solved. It was nearly 100 degrees out today, and I wanted to make sure the A/C is working perfectly, in case he wants to go for a drive in the car. He's a WW2 hero, and all he wanted for his 100th birthday is to go to McDonald's for breakfast. (-:

I'm assembling parts for a T2 upgrade. Some of the parts are here. Some have been ordered. Some haven't been sourced yet. I'll keep updating here. I don't feel bad doing this upgrade, if it's done using period-correct T2 parts, looks very good, and is fully reversible.
 

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Discussion Starter · #77 ·
I bit the bullet today. We're pulling the top end off of the New Yorker. From our research, it appears that this particular block takes 11mm head bolts, even though it's a 1985. I'll find out soon.

We got the radiator, throttle body, valve cover, and fuel rail off today. We have the T2 conversion wire harness. The plan is to use a Mitsubishi turbo, one-piece blow-through intake and TB, (move the throttle cable arm from the old TB to the new), transfer the original injectors, replace the 287 head with 782, rollers and cam, add intercooler, and more-or-less tune it to 13 or 14 PSI with an MBC. I would much prefer to use a custom calibration, since the MBC will boost way too hard too early and runs the risk of creep at low RPM (though that's unlikely with the automatic transmission), but we'll start with an MBC first.

It has the original A413, which is a little concerning, but it came to me with an aftermarket transmission cooler. Also I'm unlikely to go over 225 to 250 ft lbs of torque, so I think I'll be alright.

We're carefully disassembling and cataloging the parts. There's a distinct possibility that it may end up restored to original condition in the future. One of the reasons for doing this is conversion is actually to save these increasingly rare parts. Another reason is the simple fact that the New Yorker is my favorite car to drive, ever. It's just really sluggish. I want to have the best of all worlds.
 

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I bit the bullet today. We're pulling the top end off of the New Yorker. From our research, it appears that this particular block takes 11mm head bolts, even though it's a 1985. I'll find out soon.

We got the radiator, throttle body, valve cover, and fuel rail off today. We have the T2 conversion wire harness. The plan is to use a Mitsubishi turbo, one-piece blow-through intake and TB, (move the throttle cable arm from the old TB to the new), transfer the original injectors, replace the 287 head with 782, rollers and cam, add intercooler, and more-or-less tune it to 13 or 14 PSI with an MBC. I would much prefer to use a custom calibration, since the MBC will boost way too hard too early and runs the risk of creep at low RPM (though that's unlikely with the automatic transmission), but we'll start with an MBC first.

It has the original A413, which is a little concerning, but it came to me with an aftermarket transmission cooler. Also I'm unlikely to go over 225 to 250 ft lbs of torque, so I think I'll be alright.

We're carefully disassembling and cataloging the parts. There's a distinct possibility that it may end up restored to original condition in the future. One of the reasons for doing this is conversion is actually to save these increasingly rare parts. Another reason is the simple fact that the New Yorker is my favorite car to drive, ever. It's just really sluggish. I want to have the best of all worlds.
Be careful with ignition timing. G head LM will crank it too high for a 782 head and the other issue is the G head pistons will raise compression .5cr with a 782 head.

There's a spreadsheet somewhere with all the factory and possible CR's with these cars/parts.

Ok found spreadsheet but xml won't load it says you will increase compression from 8.1 to 8.7:1

I'm in a similar spot. I dropped a 782 head/garret T1 setup on a 2.2 Tbi shortblock 9.5:1 compression vs 8.1:1 Turbo compression .
Car Vehicle Hood Light Motor vehicle



So I already dropped ignition timing to 8° you might want to go the same or more. Just monitor the knock sensor somehow.

782 head is more responsive around town. Might be worth it. And the mitsu rocks on a 2.2

Myself I avoid anything before 86 for a bunch of reasons.

Different

Distributor
Flywheel (number of bolts)
Crankshaft
Transmission
Struts
One year electronics
4 lug on most pre 86
Crossover year g head to 782
On K and E body all different body panels
Different pistons (compression ratio)
Chance of 2.6 being under hood (vomit inducing)
Probably more....
 

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Discussion Starter · #79 ·
Oh yes, @DOC G IROC is lucky in that his is an 86. But...I'm embracing the 85 I have, haha! I remember a lot of the problems I had out of my 85 Laser XE, like the crank pulley shearing itself off on the highway. I'm really amazed how good condition everything is so far.

I haven't cracked the head bolts yet. The 287 appears to be fine. The only reason for pulling it is because it's so hard to do the breathing-side of the motor on the vehicle. I might end up staying with the 287 then.
 

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Oh yes, @DOC G IROC is lucky in that his is an 86. But...I'm embracing the 85 I have, haha! I remember a lot of the problems I had out of my 85 Laser XE, like the crank pulley shearing itself off on the highway. I'm really amazed how good condition everything is so far.

I haven't cracked the head bolts yet. The 287 appears to be fine. The only reason for pulling it is because it's so hard to do the breathing-side of the motor on the vehicle. I might end up staying with the 287 then.
If none of the bolts or studs break off in the G head then I would just put the T2 manifolds on it and reuse it. also you can put a roller cam in it if you want. The slider cams seem to wear out all the time. I have only seen one good slider no wiped lobes.
 
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