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Discussion Starter #201
Ooh juicy!
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The first thing I'll clear up is the "snail":
On most turbos, the snail is usually the Compressor housing itself.
However, with the HOLSET 341-351,
the "snail" is often referring to the Compressor outlet that looks like the snails head coming out of the shell. lol)


Boy, I sure hope this is good enough.
There's an issue with measuring from any point on the head to the center of the Compressor Housing.
The Inlet has the "lip" for attaching the hose, that's about 1.5" deep.
This gets in the way,
as well as the outside of the Compressor itself.

So what I did was get measurements to the intersecting points at the center of the compressor.
I ran a long piece of threaded rod down the turbo, shimed it centered,
and then hand tightened nuts on either side.
With the rod in place,
I squared a straight edge to the head gasket surface of the head,
an measured the distance between the 2.

Head gasket surface to Centerline of Turbo comes out to slightly less than 8.25"(say 8 3/16") :


Closer:


Closest:

(BTW: I'm running out of things to measure with. lol)

The angled points(intersecting points from the corner of the head and,
the intake bolt hole) :
Corner of Head, to Centerline of the Turbo, right around 10.50"




From the Outermost Intake bolt hole to the Centerline of the Turbo is 10.875"




And lastly, I got a third of the furthest bolt hole in the head to the centerline of the Turbo, just shy of 15.75"




That's all I've got at the moment, but the Head/Header/Turbo is still mocked-up,
and in the vice on the bench.
Further measurements would be no problem.
Let me know brother.

And hey Asa, man you're a really good dude.
Thanks for the time you've put into this.
It may seem minimal to you,
but to me it is extremely valuable.
Thank you, kindly. :hail:
 

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Thanks for the time you've put into this.
It may seem minimal to you,
but to me it is extremely valuable.
Thank you, kindly. :hail:
No problem! This is good practice for me. Accurate measurements like this are really valuable, but only if you know you can trust them.

Unfortunately I can only use the first measurement you did, from the straight edge you clamped to the head gasket surface to the centerline of the turbo. And that assumes that the "corner" of your intake gasket surface to head gasket surface has the same relationship as the model I made, which is probably true.

That measurement basically locates the shaft axis into a circle that has a radius of 8 3/16" from the imaginary axis formed by the intersections (corners) of those two surfaces.

But it could be anywhere along that circle, so we need one more measurement to lock it in space.

I cant use your other measurements because they are indeterminate. You could think of it like this: between any two parallel lines in space, you can make a measurement between one point on one and another point on the other that measures any length (just change the angle of the measurement). So in order to make those measurements useful I would have to know the angle of the measurement relative to the head or shaft, which would be pretty trick to do.

So I would suggest trying the "measurement #2" I described in the previous post. I took some pictures of how I think you could do it.

The unthreaded shaft in the picture represents the bolt you put in the turbo. I threaded two bolts in the intake mounting holes on the head, and laid a straight edge on them. I let the straight edge extend out so it was past the turbo bolt, and then measured from the "front, bottom" edge of the straight edge, to the center of the shaft (easier here because we do it past the end of the shaft).

That should be enough to locate the shaft in space.

Then we will need some measurements from the shaft axis to the firewall side of the compressor housing, as you will have it rotated. This is tricky because we need those measurements to be along some plane we already know. Do you think you can do meas #3 as in the previous post? I'll try to think up some other ways of doing it.



 

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Discussion Starter #203
No problem! This is good practice for me. Accurate measurements like this are really valuable, but only if you know you can trust them.

I cant use your other measurements because they are indeterminate. You could think of it like this: between any two parallel lines in space, you can make a measurement between one point on one and another point on the other that measures any length (just change the angle of the measurement). So in order to make those measurements useful I would have to know the angle of the measurement relative to the head or shaft, which would be pretty trick to do.
I do have a protractor here.
I could get the exact angles of every measurement in relation to the head's different surfaces.
Like in relation to the Intake/Exhaust mounting surface, or whatever. :D

If it make any difference, the Turbo center shaft is parallel to the Intake/Exhaust mounting surface. :shrug:
 

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Discussion Starter #205
is it not possible to do the intake bolt method as shown in prev post? i would think it would be the easiest and most accurate.
How about this? :


The 74° angle is from the top of the Intake/Exhaust mounting surface,
where it angles to the V/C mounting surface.

BTW: I have to run my friend.
I may be back later, but if not, I thank you again Asa. :thumb:
 

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Discussion Starter #206
Is it July 8, 2014???
Because, Santa Clause, dressed as a USPS mailman, just brought me a present!

(It's starting to get a bit more SERIOUS around here! lol)






Obviously, these are my Connecting Rods.
Eagle H-Beam Rods(part# CRS5945D3D).
"Why SRT-4 Rods?" you may be asking.
Well, they're incredibly close to the exact length, and will easily bolt into the 2.2 block(using SRT-4 Rod Bearings(big end).
Small end must be honed for larger pin, and centered by .0004"

A not so well-known fact about the newer 2.0 & 2.4 liter engine is that they were designed using the 2.2/2.5 engine as a starting point.
So, the 2.0 & 2.4 are very similar to our beloved 2.2/2.5 platforms. I'm not sure what other parts may be interchanged with slight mods,
but it sure is worth looking into, as I got the rods for about 1/2 of what the 2.2 rods would've cost me. :brows:
I would have investigated using SRT-4 pistons as well,
but turismolover22 really hooked me up with a brand new set of Forged Venolias that I couldn't pass up.

I acquired the rods on a different forum I joined at the beginning of this build; www.neons.org
The member who sold them to me goes by "SRTeric"; GREAT guy, and a fantastic seller.
He had them boxed up literally seconds after the transaction, and shipped immediately. :thumb:

Now the arduous task of finding my Common Block & Forged crank.
Anyone who follows this log who may have these anywhere near North East PA,
get in touch and, maybe we can work something out.

Thanks for looking; Back to the K-Frame build(and continued work with acannell on turbo positioning) :D
 

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IIRC the only forged crank will come from a VNT motor. I had 1 once and not knowing exactly what it was, I let it go for about 150--I should have kept it.

Good luck on your search

.
 

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Discussion Starter #208
is it not possible to do the intake bolt method as shown in prev post? i would think it would be the easiest and most accurate.
I hope these are the right ones my friend.

The centerline from the Intake bolts' top edges: 8.5"




The outer-most edge of the Compressor Housing from the Intake bolts' top edge: 12.625"




Head gasket surface is close to flush with Turbo centerline, but off by about .25"




As for "clocking" the Compressor Housing,
during these measurements, I tried to get the outermost edge to the rear(toward the firewall),
this way, when the model is built, if I clock it in some other position(which I will),
it'll be more than safe for clearance. :D
 

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Discussion Starter #209
IIRC the only forged crank will come from a VNT motor. I had 1 once and not knowing exactly what it was, I let it go for about 150--I should have kept it.

Good luck on your search

.
Actually, the 2.2 forged crank still appears to be available for purchase from Mopar(or overstock outlets):

PN 4323815, 87-90 2.2 Turbo II, 92 mm stroke, 8-bolt Forged Crankshaft

However, the prices are FAR north of what I'm willing to pay. :eek:
 

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Actually, the 2.2 forged crank still appears to be available for purchase from Mopar(or overstock outlets):

PN 4323815, 87-90 2.2 Turbo II, 92 mm stroke, 8-bolt Forged Crankshaft

However, the prices are FAR north of what I'm willing to pay. :eek:


Yes---But---
Were you not asking for COMMON BLOCK forged crank??

Now the arduous task of finding my Common Block & Forged crank.
Anyone who follows this log who may have these anywhere near North East PA,
get in touch and, maybe we can work something out.
 

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I hope these are the right ones my friend.

The centerline from the Intake bolts' top edges: 8.5"




The outer-most edge of the Compressor Housing from the Intake bolts' top edge: 12.625"




Head gasket surface is close to flush with Turbo centerline, but off by about .25"




As for "clocking" the Compressor Housing,
during these measurements, I tried to get the outermost edge to the rear(toward the firewall),
this way, when the model is built, if I clock it in some other position(which I will),
it'll be more than safe for clearance. :D
getting closer!

I think are good for "measurement 2", as top of intake bolt holes to shaft axis as 8.5"

But we need one more measurement in order to lock the axis in place.

In the last picture, what is the straight line distance from the headgasket and manifold gasket "corner" to the shaft axis? That picture would be perfect if there was simply a yard stick showing the distance. You dont have to do that measurement along a known plane since its from a 2D point in space (the corner). You can just do point-to-point with the yardstick.

And, for the 12.625" measurement from the manifold gasket surface to the outermost point of the compressor housing:

-was the yardstick perpendicular to the gasket surface? This measurement only means something if it was. You can use a block or a triangle or something to make it square.

-also, importantly, if when its perpendicular, it doesnt intersect the shaft axis (almost certainly true), you can slide it up or down on the gasket surface until it does, and then measure the distance you slid it from the top of the intake bolt holes.

-and, do you have a spacer or something clamped with the red c clamp to the head? make sure to account for its thickness.

those rods are PSYCHO :thumb:
 

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Discussion Starter #213
getting closer!

In the last picture, what is the straight line distance from the headgasket and manifold gasket "corner" to the shaft axis? That picture would be perfect if there was simply a yard stick showing the distance.
Here you go! 8.625"(had it already; thought you may have asked, but wasn't 100% sure. lol)
But after further consideration, this measurement may be erroneous.

And, for the 12.625" measurement from the manifold gasket surface to the outermost point of the compressor housing:

-was the yardstick perpendicular to the gasket surface? This measurement only means something if it was. You can use a block or a triangle or something to make it square.

-also, importantly, if when its perpendicular, it doesnt intersect the shaft axis (almost certainly true), you can slide it up or down on the gasket surface until it does, and then measure the distance you slid it from the top of the intake bolt holes.
Actually, no. I had to lean the yardstick back a bit to contact the centerline axis or the outermost axis.
(hence the "erroneous" comment above ^ ) :bang head

I'll remeasure tomorrow with the yardstick square to the gasket surface.

Should I also get the distance from the yardstick to the axis point?

-and, do you have a spacer or something clamped with the red c clamp to the head? make sure to account for its thickness.
The C-clamp holds a scrap piece of flat aluminum to the straight edge to represent the gasket surface out there.
This way, I can lay the edge of the yardstick on the scrap aluminum, and it's basically at head gasket surface height. :D

those rods are PSYCHO :thumb:
Well, not yet. But surely in time, they will be part of the overall :brows: MaDNesS :brows:

Be back tomorrow with the dimensions requested bro.
Thanks again Asa!!! :thumb:
 

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For the gasket(s) corner to the shaft axis, it just needs to be straight line, point to point. No squareness is required to any plane. If you only had to lean it slightly then 8.625" is probably pretty close to accurate, but you might as well repeat it just to be sure.

And for the remaining measurement, which is to tell us how far the compressor housing sticks out towards the firewall, you can figure out an easier way if you like. The thing is, whatever distance measurement(s) you make need to be:

-from a known point (the corners of the head manifold and main gasket surfaces, or perhaps the top of the intake bolts, etc..)

-at a known angle from an existing plane (gasket surfaces). the easiest known angle is "square" (perpendicular) because you have stuff that is probably square, like your triangle or other machined objects, that you can use to align the yardstick. Or if you have to you can use the protractor, but its less accurate usually than just using an object that is square already.

so if you are going to measure from the manifold gasket surface, at the upper side of the intake bolt holes, to the outermost point on the compressor housing, you have to make that "line" square to the gasket surface, or precisely measure its angle. since making it square probably makes it not line up with the point you want to measure, then you can slide it down the gasket surface until it does, and then also measure the distance you slid it from the upper side of the intake bolt holes (or the head gasket/manifold gasket corner), and that works out okay too.
 

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Discussion Starter #215
July 10, 2014

Making some interesting discoveries that are probably old-news to some.
There's a process called WPC Treatment that basically is shot peening,
with a much finer media, and at much higher speeds.
This leaves a microscopic "film" that strengthens, and reduces friction of any part.

I found this information after fellow member byghtn reminded me of the difficulty
in locating the all too elusive 2.2, CB Forged Crankshafts.
(Thank you byghtn. Sometimes I forget these little details. lol)
In an old thread here at TD, this method was suggested to another member for similar reasons.
There was no follow through on whether or not it was used,
but after checking it out, I LIKE IT!!!

I feel it will strengthen a cast crank(which is already capable of handling 400+HP/TQ levels),
to the point where I won't have its failure on my mind constantly at 7000 RPMS! lol

So, now to find a CB, take it to my machine shop, stuff my internals in it,
drop back 10 yards, and PUNT! lol :dancing:
I think it'll work out well, and I'll keep everything posted.
I haven't investigated the process thoroughly enough yet,
but all signs point to it being the way to go for me.

Here's a YouTube vid, and below, a link to their site:


What is WPC?

BTW: Asa, I have the measurements for the Turbo Clearances.
I'll double check today, and post later.
Thanks again Bro. :thumb:
 

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Discussion Starter #216
For the gasket(s) corner to the shaft axis, it just needs to be straight line, point to point. No squareness is required to any plane. If you only had to lean it slightly then 8.625" is probably pretty close to accurate, but you might as well repeat it just to be sure.
From the Intake/Exhaust mani mounting surface, Valve Cover mounting surface "corner",
measured down the Intake/Exhaust surface 2.375"

From that point(square to the centerline of the Turbo),
the measurement to the Centerline of the Turbo is 8.15625"

And, the measurement to the Outermost point of the Compressor Housing is 12.75" :D
 

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From the Intake/Exhaust mani mounting surface, Valve Cover mounting surface "corner",
measured down the Intake/Exhaust surface 2.375"

From that point(square to the centerline of the Turbo),
the measurement to the Centerline of the Turbo is 8.15625"

And, the measurement to the Outermost point of the Compressor Housing is 12.75" :D
hmm I cant get that to work out in SW....heres a simpler idea:

Can you just make two point to point measurements? These dont require any squareness, you can just do them with the yardstick or tape measure.

They will be from the two "corners" of the head to the shaft axis.

So..

a) valve cover/manifold gasket corner to shaft axis

b) head gasket/manifold gasket corner to shaft axis

and while you're at it, also measure the distance between the two corners ALONG the manifold gasket surface, just to make sure our heads are the same.
 

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wait! let me correct that. both measurements need to be perpendicular to the head long axis, but they dont need to be perpendicular to any surface...

i.e. dont let the yard stick tilt towards the driver or passenger side, but it can tilt towards the roof or the ground
 

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Discussion Starter #220
BTW what are you planning on doing for a cal?
Well, the CAL is handled.
I have a contact, but I first need to get all of the hard parts situated.
This way, the CAL will "understand" what it's controlling. :D

There are many-many members who are capable of guiding you through the process.
However, I know there are additional pieces of equipment necessary to burn your own CALs.
(This is loosely referring to your post in the Intake thread)

I know there are several different "burners/writers",
but there is one that is commonly recommended for it's consistency.
Also, there is a particular Chip to get as well.
(Not just the "type" of chip, but the name brand and all)

Message ShelGame, or tryingbe.
Both of these members are very knowledgeable when it comes to CALs.
That's not to say there aren't others, because there are many.
These two are just off the top of my head.

At the DIY site, I bet you'd be able to figure everything out.
And, any questions that may remain for you, they would surely answer.
Or you could start a thread to ask whatever questions you may end up with.

On a side note: Asa, if you start burning CALs, WOW!!!
Might as well just start getting into body work while you're at it my friend!
What do you intend to name your newly designed, and hand built turbo hot-rod? lol :brows:
 
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