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Discussion Starter #21
I dont believe the Carb is warped but I can check this. The carb and spacer gaskets are new and both on tight.

As far as timing goes I have tried the procedure in the Factory manual. I use a power timing light and warm the car up and adjust the idle down to spec but the idle kicker seems to hold the idle at 1000-1100 steady and wont let me go down to 900 stated on the label. I then disconnect the Vac hose on the transducer located on the ECU then bring the idle back to 900 and look at the timing. It stays most of the time at 10 as it should according to the label but has the occasional bounce to 8 and 12 dues to RPM fluctuation.

As far as idle Ive always wondered if Im disconnecting the correct items. It says to unplug Rad fan and jump it so it stays running. Remove PCV to draw under hood air. Then it says to disconnect Oxygen feedback test connector located on left fender shield (Is this the connector going to the carburetor that controls the feedback solenoid?) Then it says to disconnect the wiring to the vacuum control solenoid located on the left fender shield (is this the connector near the solenoid with all the vac lines?) The 2 pictures are the connectors I have been disconnecting in the past trying to set the idle. are they correct? Then it says to adjust the idle to correct speed 900 RPM, then reconnect everything. increase RPM to 2500 for 15 seconds.

Im not giving up, just want to find the answer to the puzzle. Appreciate all the help and advise! Best info comes from people that have learned it and worked on these back in the day.

0204201117.jpg 0204201118.jpg 0204201118a.jpg 0204201139.jpg 0204201139a.jpg
 

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I'm not too sure about the connectors on an '87 as I've been working on my '83 and things changed in '85-'86.

But you say that the timing fluctuates between 8 & 12? hmm...

Let's see what the Master (NAJ) says about it! :)
 

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Your original issue was/still is an intermittent stalling, now we have a black rich issue and we do not know if this is new or was already present.
Please take a look at the spark plugs and see if they show signs of fouling or are fouled.
Use your new vacuum gauge and tee into a manifold vacuum line, I would like to know what engine vacuum is at idle.
We need to verify all basics are correct, we are getting in too deep without answers and need to be sure we are not overlooking the issue.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
Ok so I pulled the spark plugs out and some are black and some tan. These plugs were installed about 500 miles ago as part of normal tune up along with wires.

I hoked a gauge up and tapped into the line that runs from the lower carb to the ECU transducer. Hope this is something to go off of.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
I believe the black plugs is a sign of the car running rich. Looking at the procedure it mentions to jump the Rad fan, Remove PCV to draw under hood air, disconnect Oxygen feedback connector on left fender shield (still unsure which one is the right one?) Remove Vac harness from CVSCC and plug it. Then it says to remove vac hose from air sensor and install a propane bottle and adjust the mixture at the highest idle. Surely there has to be a simpler way as I dont have a propane bottle or the fittings to hook it up. Any other ideas on how I can adjust the Mixture with the vac gauge?
 

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Forget all of that for adjusting the fuel mixture and I doubt that is your issue since not all cylinders are being affected
#2 plug is the worse with #4 starting to foul.
Engine vacuum is good @ 18"HG.

Staying with checking basics...
1)We need to verify the ignition system is functioning properly and firing the correct cylinders at the right time.
Usually when I see 1 or 2 cylinders fouling on a carburated car and there is nothing vacuum related that they have in common I start looking at the distributor cap being cracked or crossfiring especially when the two cylinders are "sister" cylinders, (1,3,4,2)
You can use an adjustable spark tester (recommended) which will allow you to place the ignition system under load to see if it misfires.
You can pick up the spark tester for around $12.00 at Autozone.
Link - Best Ignition Tester Parts for Cars, Trucks & SUVs ignition-spark-tester/10257_0_0
IGNITION - Adjustable Spark Tester.jpg
If you cannot get one you can use the Chrysler method for checking for spark on a no start condition although this will not create an electrical load on the ignition system.
IGNITION- Checking For Spark 1.jpg IGNITION- Checking for Spark 2.jpg

The other thing I would like you to check is Cam Timing so we can rule that out.
If your timing light has an advance meter it is easier, if it does let me know, if not...
1)Disconnect and isolate the - battery terminal
2)Remove all 4 spark plugs.
3)Bring #1 cylinder to TDC on a compression stroke
(You can turn the crankshaft clockwise with a large ratchet/breaker bar)
4)Gain access to the timing window on the bellhousing and bring the timing mark to "0" on the timing plate.
5)Remove the access plug in the upper timing cover,the slot in the cam sprocket should be at 12 o'clock center with the cylinder head.
FYI...The cylinder head is on an angle so the mark will not be 12 - 6, it will be closer to 11 - 5, you have to be sure, one tooth off = 9 degrees of valve opening to piston position.
6)Here are written instructions with pics/illustrations.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
I will search Autozone for the tester today and inspect the Distributor cap. I will also check the cam timing and take pictures and upload the results.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
Ok so here are some pics of the timing, looks to be correct. #1 is ate TDC and the notch is at 0.
Let me know if you need other pictures.

I got the spark tester, How do I use it correctly? Do I remove 1 plug at a time and have it hooked up while the engine is running on 3 cylinders and test the one?
 

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Discussion Starter #29
Here are 2 videos, just installed new plugs gaped at .035. The first video is the first time I started it today, and the second one is the second time I started it. This is what it did the other day when I gave up. Tried again in an hour and it went away. Something seems to be going on here.


 

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How was the distributor cap? Was the distributor shaft clean of rust & rotor making good contact?

Also, can you post a pic of the cam gear showing the entire gear?

The spark tester: Attach as in NAJ's pic & crank engine. You can clip it where it can be seen from the driver's seat. Watch for the spark on the tester...
 

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With the engine running as it is in video #2 if you place your hand over the throat of the carb what happens?
Does it stall or does RPM increase.
That is how we used to determine if a carbed car was lean or had a vacuum leak, with a large vacuum leak you would be able to completely cover the carb and it would continue running.

To use the spark tester you can use it with the engine running or cranking if you have a no start condition and need to verify if spark is present.
Normal KV requirements at idle and no load cruise are in the 10 - 15 KV range.
As engine load increases, resistance to current flow also increases so the KV requirements are higher.
The ignition coil should be able to produce approx 40 KV.
If you have a weak coil that cannot keep up with electrical load this tester will show you that.
Electricity is extremely lazy and will always look for the easiest path to ground.
If you have an ignition wire arcing to ground or a cracked distributor cap causing a crossfire using the tester to increase the electrical load will also reveal that.
You can also use the tester to run a simple cylinder balance test, when the plug wire for each cylinder is removed you should see a noticeable drop in engine rpm, if you do not you know you have an issue with that cylinder.
The tester allows you to safely run the engine with the plug wire removed.
1)Open the spark tester to 25 KV, remove the plug wire from the spark plug for #1 cylinder and insert the spark tester into the wire.
2)The tester needs to be grounded, that is what the alligator clip on the tester is for.
I prefer to use a jumper wire from the clip to - battery so I can place the tester where I can see it from the drivers seat.
IGNITION - Adjustable Spark Tester.jpg
3)Start the car, you should have a good, strong, consistent, blue spark.
If the spark is weak, erratic you have an issue with that cylinder(s).
4)Repeat with all 4 cylinders.

It has been a long time since I heard a 2.2L with a slider cam running, it could just be your phone but the valvetrain sounded really noisy.
I know they had issues with lifters not pumping up and then the rocker falls out.
If you do not find anything else you may want to remove the valve cover and take a look.
Again, if you have a valvetrain issue you will notice it with a lack of RPM drop in that cylinder when you are checking spark.
 

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Discussion Starter #32
I took a look at the distributor with my buddy and noticed that the reluctor that looks to be held on by 4 plastic/nylon pins has alot of play in it. So I have ordered a new distributor and will install this today, After that I will run the spark test on each cylinder. The last time I had the valve cover off to change the gasket due to it leaking, the Camshaft and top end looked immaculate proving that the car does have 50,000 miles and not 150,000. But still does not mean lifters wont make noise.

When I put my hand over the top of the the engine will die. which is a good sign that there is no major vac leak. The car did not run like this the day before which is odd that it does this at random.
 

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If the reluctor is loose/moving that will create an intermittent driveabilty issue as ignition timing will change as the reluctor moves.
The shutter blades coming loose on the injected cars was also a problem, there was a fix, it is on the site somewhere.
That would be great if that corrected all of your issues.

Also, forgot to comment on your adjusting the fuel mixture on your carb at idle.
We used to just tuen the mixture screw in slowly until the rpm started to drop/engine began running rough and then back out the screw to where it was smooth.

Figured I would post these, probably the same info you already have.
IGNITION-ESC Ignition Timing.jpg IGNITION-ESC Idle Speed.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #34
I believe it might be affecting it as there is alot of play in the reluctor. I will change it and hope for the best.
I appreciate the mixture adjustment help. What is the correct order for adjusting things? Idle-Timing-Mixture then recheck idle? Always wondered which you should do first.

I wish the Carb did not have a solenoid kicker and just utilized the stop speed screw like a normal carb. Ive read they used them on carbs that have AC (mine does not) and cars with auto transmissions.
 

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Discussion Starter #35
Today I put a new distributor On the Omni and it still does not want to idle correctly so that I can get a spark reading. So before it fouls the spark plugs again I took the carburetor off and while I was cleaning it there was a little bit of debris sitting in the bottom of the bowl. I have also checked the top of the carburetor for warpage and it seems like there is a slight amount of Gap when I put the straight edge on it. My main concern has to do with the slot that the feedback solenoid goes into. I have attached some pictures showing this slot and a little hole that is in it. On my original carburetor that came with the car I was able to put a peace a solder and it fits right into the hole. And if you were to spray carb cleaner in there and turn it to the side the cleaner would blow through the hole into the metering jet slots. On the new carburetor that has been on the car. For a little bit under a year. That whole seems to be blocked and I could not run the same piece of solder through it. It also has the plug. Removed on the side exposing something that can be adjusted. Why would this be closed on this carburetor? And not on the other? I've also pictured the part numbers.
 

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That blocked hole should be open. That's how the O2 feedback solenoid meters the fuel-air ratio (In conjunction with the main metering jet) by moving up or down per a signal from the SCC. Perhaps a piece of debris is stuck inside. Try blowing air into the metering jet slots to see if it will open.

That open hole with an Allen head screw inside may be where one would adjust the fast idle. Probably someone removed the plug in the past. That's usually used during Chrysler's propane procedure.

That air horn definitely is warped! Interchange that one with the one that is straight. Don't overtighten the wingnuts when you reattach the air cleaner assembly!!!! My air horn was warped but with perseverance, clamps, a piece of glass and fine grit sandpaper I was able to get mine within tolerance where the gasket worked.

In your original post you said that the carb was new. Did you mean "NOS" or remanufactured?

Try the above and when you put the replacement air horn on, look at it parallel with a light to confirm that there's no gap or light shining through. Reassemble everything and try, try again!
 

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Just reread your original post. So the carb is a reman that you've since rebuilt. Possibly because that little hole is clogged then that is what causing the idling issue. A warped horn doesn't help either.

Many people don't like carbs because they have trouble with them. But a clean carb that's adjusted correctly is a sweet thing to behold working! :)
 

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Discussion Starter #38
Yea the carb was running before but maybe the O2 feedback never worked right It was a reman and had been working ok before. Both carbs have bad air horns so Im going to search for another carb. On a side note the running rough seems to have gone away now that I reverted to the old fuel pump. The new one I think was putting out way to much fuel to the point where it was pooling on top of the secondary plate and throttle plate and spiting it up if you would try to throttle it.
 

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Discussion Starter #39 (Edited)
I decided to order a reman carb from rock auto by Autolite. I tried to sand the air horn but with the gasket on I can see light through the outer side of the throttle side. I hope I can get the carb to work for a day as there is a big car show this weekend that I entered the Omni in and would hate to miss it. New carb wont get here until the 13th.
 

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When you get your new carb be sure and open it up to confirm that nothing got inside that may clog it.

If you want to continue to try to sand it make sure you put the sandpaper on a piece of glass so you have a flat, flat surface. Put it on the edge of a table and sand the "lower" end of the air horn. Maybe put 2 gaskets instead of one and tighten down good. That might work so you can make the car show...

Good luck!
 
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