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Discussion Starter #41
Thanks John I will try this today, I was thinking about trying the double gasket as well. I wish I could of made one good carb from the parts, but the old one has a worn throttle shaft, and the new one has that plugged hole where the solenoid goes and I tried everything I can to unplug it and nothing. So there are a few things I will be checking when the reman comes in. I will update if I have any issues.
 

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I never had luck with remanufactured carbs, if the problem was something that could not be corrected with a rebuild (worn throttle shaft, warped air horn, etc) we always opted for a "new" replacement but this was back in the 80's/early 90's and the majority of the carbs I rebuilt were GM Dualjet and Quadrajet feedback carbs,

We are lucky that John is here since he knows much more about these carbs than I do, owning one gives you tons of experience and knowledge that books cannot offer.
THANKS JOHN!!!

Remember what I told you, on a Feedback Carb the O2 Feedback System only has 20% control of the fuel delivery system, it is only used to keep the A/F Ratio at 14.7/1 (Stochiometric) at idle and no load cruise for emission control purposes.
Carburetors are not efficient, that is why they became obsolete, with a fuel injected engine the engine controller has 100% control over all fuel/ignition (trans and on some valve timing), the more the systems evolve the more they will be able to do and unfortunately the less we as the general public will be able to do to diagnose and repair issues on our newer cars.
On the + side, with the efficiency of today's cars what you do get is "Mom's Grocery Getter" gets 25 MPG on 87 octane and can blow my VNT off the road, I digress (Thanks for letting an old man vent)

You mentioned debris in the fuel bowl, I had mentioned that you may have had a piece of dirt holding the needle valve off of the seat causing the rich running condition.
Place a glass jar over the removed fuel line from the carb and crank the engine to fill the jar about 1/2 way and let it settle for awhile, is there any debris/contaminants in the fuel?
If there are you want to correct that before installing another carb.

If you think your new pump was creating too much pressure you could have easily tested it against your old one with your Vacuum/Pressure gauge.

Found this, not sure if you need it but better to be safe than sorry.

Good Luck and Will Be Waiting to Hear Results.
 

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We are lucky that John is here since he knows much more about these carbs than I do, owning one gives you tons of experience and knowledge that books cannot offer.
THANKS JOHN!!!
Thanks NAJ for the vote of confidence!

Looks like we'll have another knowledgeable person with carbs soon if not already, :)
 

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Discussion Starter #45 (Edited)
Thanks for all the info NAJ and John you have both been a big help with your knowledge on carbs.

I will inspect the fuel before the new carb goes on but as for today I have given up. This morning I put on the carb the was working before. It idled fine I was able to time it and I thought I would get by. I took it to the gas station 4 miles away and filed it up. Went to walmart and all hell broke loose. As I parked the idle went down, and now went rough. Went inside and shopped came out and started it and no change. I had to make it back home a mile away, and of course I hit all 4 lights red... Each time the car hesitated and almost died trying to make me look like and idiot stalled on the highway. Got it home, let it sit and when to get a new fuel filter at this point I was guessing. Came back and my buddy who worked on some of these back in the day took a look, it idled better then walmart and then normaled out. Figured it was fine and left it at that. I was getting it ready for the car show tomorrow and was going to drive it again. Same issue idling rough again. Pulled all the plugs and there pitch black. So I cleaned them and first start up ran fine until 5 min later same issue again. pulled the plugs black again! Something is giving it too much fuel. The mixture has not been touched, ignition timing is correct at 10 degrees. Fuel is fine. I even took the carb and cleaned it again for the 10th time. Old fuel pump was put back on which solved the flooding, Old EGR was reinstalled. I have no clue what could be fouling up the plugs. I really dont want to mess with this carb anymore since the replacement will be here early next week. Could it be anything else besides the Carb? Coil, Wires not making it detonate each time? The first video is After I got to walmart and it ran fine for 20 min. The second is after I barely made it home. It idles ok! But it went back to the symptoms in the first vid an hour later and got worse no it will not idle and is undrivable.



PS Looks like the Omni will miss the car show this year, so I will have to take my Dodge Neon R/T, Ugghh boring fuel injected cars lol
 

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1)Having two carbs doing the same thing...Another issue or coincidence?
That question will be answered when you get the third.
2)Where you able to verify ignition system operation with the adjustable spark tester?
3)Where you able to get/be sure you have the correct PCV Valve installed?
4)When the vehicle acts up as opposed to running normally is ignition timing reading the same?
(With the idle speed solenoid grounded and vacuum transducer disconnected and plugged)
5)Be sure to check the fuel for contaminants.
6)And this is the most important...
Have a GREAT Weekend!!!
 

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Does it idle alright with the air cleaner off? Reason I ask is not due to the air filter but because of the air passage from the front of the car, through the SCC and then to the air filter assembly. No blockage (old mouse nest)???
 

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Discussion Starter #49
Well the first carb never ran right and has a good Vac leak due to the throttle shaft being worn. I would try the spark tester if the thing would idle for a good amount of time but its hard to try when it idles at 500 now and wants to die and just keeps fouling the plugs.
Speaking of PCV I ordered 3 from a seller on ebay since they we $2 each! Last ones he had and they are the correct part # you provided and one is on the car now.
Timing was good running but I have not checked it when it idles bad, disconnecting the SCC idles it to low and makes it die out. How would I ground out the Idle solenoid?
I will be sure to get a glass jar and fill it with fuel to check for contaminates.
I will be sure to check the CAT, im sure its full of contaminates now, the amount of soot thats come from the tail pipe the past few days is not good.
Thanks NAJ I need a break from this car for a day or so. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #50
Does it idle alright with the air cleaner off? Reason I ask is not due to the air filter but because of the air passage from the front of the car, through the SCC and then to the air filter assembly. No blockage (old mouse nest)???
No it Idles the same even with the cleaner off. It has a new filter and no blockages from the SCC to the carb.
 

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When you set ignition timing you have to ground the closed idle switch on the idle solenoid to be sure the controller is seeing closed throttle. (I do not have a pic)

You can disconnect the fuel line from the back of the fuel pump (so you do not flood the engine) and crank the engine to check spark.
 

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Regarding the PCV, did you check the crankcase hose? Mine was actually clogged with what looked like hay particles. PO used my Rampage to haul hay. When he didn't the mud daubers had them a nice home. Even found 2 nests in the SCC!
 

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Discussion Starter #53
The factory service manual states for ignition timing you need to bring it to temp, adjust idle to spec, plug SCC vacuum transducer, check idle and correct it to spec, adjust timing and reconnect the Vacuum transducer and set curb idle.

I will check fuel from the tank, and check the PCV hose. I just think its weird how it idles fine as soon as I put new plugs in and then started to run bad after what I assume is because the plugs are fowling up dark black, so something is making it run rich? Maybe feedback is stuck in rich mode on first startup as its sitting there idleing? Or something is not making constant detonation. Im going to try to get a reading on the spark plugs but I will wait until I get the carb on Tuesday but first will check the fuel for sure.
 

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Discussion Starter #54
So Today the reman carb came in, and boy those things are sketchy. I inspected it and noticed that they used some sore of sealant in the front of the air horn since it is slightly warped. The feed back solenoid had the wires cut almost to the solenoid and new wires soldered on and the concealment plug on the top of the solenoid has been removed exposing a adjustable hex screw. I decided to use my old solenoid. I installed it and it started right up but the choke would not open after warming up so I took the choke and temp sensor off of my old one. Other than that It has been running good, I took it out earlier and also just got back from the drive thru and no issues. I might have to adjust the AF mixture since it smells a little rich after its fully warmed up.

I asked before what the correct procedure would be. Which do you do first? Timing-Mixture-Idle speed procedure?
 

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Yes, set the timing first and then the idle.

Glad that "sketchy" carb is at least working. Check your plugs after adjusting the timing & idle and letting it run awhile to confirm it's doing alright...
 

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Timing,(timing will affect both A/F and Idle Speed) A/F Mixture (A/F will affect Idle Speed) and lastly, Idle Speed.

Glad to hear the car is running much better and you were able to repair the issues with this carb.

Keep us posted.
 

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Discussion Starter #57
So far so good, I fixed the choke issue as the thermometer on the reman might of been defective. Timing looks to be correct, idle shows about 17 hg of Vacuum and idle smooth at 900 RPM in drive. Not sure what went bad on the old carb but this seems to of fixed it.

I would still like to upgrade to a weber down the line and was going to talk to my smog guy if the feedback solenoid is something they would search for during a smog. If not it would be nice to get a little more power out of the Omni. If I were to run a weber Would I still be able to run the stock ECU and can the air pump, egr stay there for smog purposes?
 

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Do you own a straight edge?
If so you can check to see if the air horn actually is warped and by how much using a feeler gauge.

As far as the swap, search the site or use Google (our on site search is terrible) to find threads on this subject, I know I have seen threads on this before on the site.
 

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Not too sure about the Weber but I believe it has less vacuum ports (might affect the emissions) and you will need to fabricate something for the linkage. There are some threads here about upgrading the 5220 carb (non feedback)...
 

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