[nickskates4lyfe]

Alright, I've pulled the ol girl out of the garage to give it another go, that and to save some gas.

I pulled it out, after storing with stabil, probably sat for about a year and a half I started it at least once a month, moved it around, etc and it ran fine.

I drove it a good 400 miles over the course of the last two weeks and it did awesome.

Then it started showing signs of a fuel pump going, which the one in it is the 3rd we've done thanks to shoddy chinese replacements, it died on me and coasted to my house.

Now it sits in my driveway it'll start and run nice for a few second then it gets lopey and dies, sometimes it'll behave as though you just cut the key off. Before the new regulator when it did want to run any interaction with the throttle made it lean out and die.

After the new regulator it fired up and idled smooth, I gave it some gas, it reved normally. Then i brought it up to about 2k and it was like I shut the key off as it had done before. The HEP was replaced as well. Coil throws a nice spark, as do the wires to each cylinder.

I've gone over all the wiring, went through every sticky in the Help section, the only thing left to do is check the timing.

Any ideas? it's got me absolutely baffled. Oh and it isn't throwing any codes.

I can't bring myself to blame the timing though, just because it runs so damn good for a good minute before wanting to die.

EDIT* Already drained the tank, but I may just have some water in there still. At the moment I have it starting and running again but once it shuts down it won't start until you crank it like 6 times for 5-10 seconds a crank. Thinking bad gas, its pretty rich smelling, but not like its clean fuel burning.

 

[NAJ]

Are there any fault codes stored in memory?
When the car dies will she start right up again?
Have you installed a fuel pressure gauge to verify fuel pressure is/is not the issue when the car dies?

 

[nickskates4lyfe]

Just the person I was hoping would reply.

Fuel pressure has been verified, the pump is good, the regulator checked bad so I threw on one of my many spares.

No codes are stored I only get end of message.

Before it was starting right back up and dying after a little bit of smooth idle, but now it starts and runs and won't start back up until you crank it for a bit or let it sit a while...

 

[NAJ]

Just so we are on the same page....
When the car dies fuel pressure still reads 13-15 PSI. and remains there during cranking even when the car will not restart immediately?

If that is correct you need to see what is missing during cranking causing the prolonged no start condition.
Is there spark(capable of 25 kv)
Is there injector pulse width, can you see a conical spray pattern coming from the injector?

 

[nickskates4lyfe]

Yes, it holds right around 16, with the bad regulator it was right around 7. When I pinched the return I got 38psi out of it. So the pump has some pressure.

I throw a constant spark off the coil wire, the test light pulses when it's running.

As for the injector, it's really hard to tell, it is spraying, but I'm not sure how well. It sprays like mad when you throw 12 volts at it off the battery. The Injector harness is getting around 11.9 - 12.7 volts while the car is running.

When you prime and the injector fires I can see some bubbles floating around on the butterfly, thats why I was thinking water...

I can pick injectors all day at the JY for dirt cheap to free, there's a few low milage Turbo Dodges and TBI Dodges out there, if it comes down to in I'll go grab one for s&gs. It boggles my mind how many of these cars are just thrown away...

 

[NAJ]

You can look at the injector spray with a timing light which will freeze the spray pattern so you can see it.
Chrysler had problems with the low pressure TBI injectors bouncing off the seat causing an additional fuel spray but it causes a rich condition under all driving conditions.

You need to find out what is missing when the car shuts off, obviously the probelm is still present when you try to restart.

What is Map output voltage with key on/engine off when the car dies?
What is Map output voltage while cranking when the car will not restart?
What is TPS voltage when you get to the throttle position that causes the car to shut off.
Can you duplicate the condition in park/neutral or only under load?

 

[nickskates4lyfe]

I'll get the timing light out and give it a go.

I'll have to have another run with the multimeter, I did the TPS and stuff, but it seemed to test fine so I didn't make note of any voltages.

I haven't tried to put the car under load, this is all happening in neutral.

 

[NAJ]

If you have air/compression/spark and fuel when the car will not restart then you are obviously not getting fuel and/or spark at the right time in the right amounts.

I assumed you performed a wiggle test on all of the wiring/connectors, etc to if you could simulate the condition.

Get a spark tester and verify the system is capable of 25 KV while cranking.

Great Neck/Adjustable ignition spark tester (25069) | Ignition Tester | AutoZone.com

Map Sensors were also an issue on TBI cars but resulted in a rich/no start condition.
Here is the Map Voltage Test/Check.

http://www.turbododge.com/forums/f4/f14/344296-code-13-diagnostics.html

 

[nickskates4lyfe]

I did do the wiggle test. I replaced some bad connections in the wiring too. Solder and "marine" heat shrink.

I'm about to go to Advance and get the spark tester.

If I do go pick a few injectors do they have to be from 2.2's or can I use the 2.5's?

And MAPs, what cars should I pick those off of, will the caravan ones work? I'm trying to get back into these Dodges, so much information to revisit. lol

 

[NAJ]

All TBI map sensors are the same.

Not sure if the 2.2/2.5L TBI injectors are the same, check the Chrysler Parts Catalog to see if the #'s are the same.

PARTS CATALOG(the links in post #41 work)
http://www.turbododge.com/forums/f4/f15/338800-chrysler-efiche-parts-catalog-pdf-82-a-3.html

 

[nickskates4lyfe]

Awesome will do. I might go get a MAP or two just to have on hand. These cars are getting crushed everyday, and parts aren't getting cheaper.

Thanks for all the help thus far, we'll see what happens and I'll report back.

 

[nickskates4lyfe]

Timing is dead on, belt is good. I drained the tank again and found a whole bunch of water.

So for now I'm going to focus on getting that water out, I had it running for a good while and then it seemed to pick up water and shut down.

I think that may be my main problem.

 

[nickskates4lyfe]

Okay, water is out, filter is new. Plugged pressure off the fuel pump is 50psi, running its 15.5. The car still dies after running.

I've redone all checks of the TPS and such all with perfect results. I've checked the resistance of the coil wire, and replaced the coil. I'm getting strong spark on the coil wire and at every plug. Hall effect is new.

The injector is spraying nicely, timing is dead on. I tore the cover off to confirm.

I can find no real reason for it to be doing this. There are no codes whatsoever, and I can find no electrical problems anywhere.

The car starts, runs nice and dies. Now it doesn't fire back up every time, most of the time you get a no start until you let it sit a while. Still no codes.

The only thing left is vacuum and I'm into that right now. I'm here for more suggestions.

 

[NAJ]

What is missing when the car will not start???

 

[nickskates4lyfe]

Nothing thats why I'm baffled.

Fuel spray is good and I'm getting the same spark with the new and old coil. Even when she wont start.

I've gone through the vacuum and replaced a few problem areas. They werent leaking but would be eventually.

I'm totally lost as of now.

 

[NAJ]

Something is missing, not in the right amount or not at the right time.
Disable the fuel system but disconnecting the fuel pump at the tank.
If you have already fuel fouled the plugs and fuel diluted the oil those items need to be corrected before continuing.

You verified fuel pressure is correct cranking, running and stays correct when the car stalls.
Yes or No

Verify spark using a spark tester.
You need a spark tester that will be able to show the ignition system is capable of 25 KV.
You need to check at the coil wire and at each spark plug wire.
Once ignition is verified to be OK we will go from there.

Great Neck/Adjustable ignition spark tester (25069) | Ignition Tester | AutoZone.com

 

[nickskates4lyfe]

Alright, sorry for the late reply, work and this car have been keeping me busy.

Plugs were cleaned up, fuel pressure was verified, I still haven't gotten a spark tester, off Monday, I'll have to wait until then. Thanks for the help thus far NAJ.

 

[nickskates4lyfe]

I haven't messed with the car since the last post, I'll have a spark tester tomorrow, but it may be worth mentioning my dad was poking around at the computer with the chiltons manual and says he found a few place where the voltage is no good.

Didn't really talk to him long enough to get in depth, but he mentioned a spot or two the manual says puts out around 12v that is putting out 6-9v. Food for thought. Worst case scenerio I may try the diplomat SMEC, they're the same year, same powerplant so I'm hoping it'll do.

The diplo is auto but I could cope with the different idle and such if it plugs in.

But i'll have the spark tester tomorrow and we'll go from there.

 

[nickskates4lyfe]

Alright, I left the spark tester with my dad and had him look at it.

I'm taking full advantage of him not having any projects going. lol

He said the spark is fine, he's preaching about the voltage off the computer. Now the tests he ran were based off a carb'd model with a spark computer. After I pointed that out he's now questioning the tests. I'll be heading to his house here soon to give it a look myself.

I can't seem to find any test for the smec on this car. So I'll let him keep pondering while I wait for the next step.

So after spark, what's next?

 

[NAJ]

Back in post #16 I asked you if the plugs were fouled and you replied in post #17 that the "plugs were cleaned up".
What was wrong with them that they needed to be cleaned?

And just to verify, spark and fuel are both present when the car stalls and will not restart?
Will the car restart immediately if you open the throttle slightly?