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1984 Dodge Rampage Turbo
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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
So for pure experimental reasons I put together a one way valve and a restrictor between baro and MAP. I only get 3-4 lbs of boost now, but it does not surge and will rev and shift at WOT.

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Are your vacuum pneumatics the factory lines or someone's attempt at duplicating them? Any chance there is a check valve or splice with restrictor inadvertently spliced in the line? I've actually seen the 4 way splitter become clogged with debris. The factory never had vacuum lines run on floor of plenum exactly for this reason; to keep debris out
These appear to be original but they are placed behind valve cover. There appear to be no splices or restrictors placed in any of vacuum tubing.

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There are a couple of two ways in the valley. I can definitely take them apart and check for any debris.
 

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So for pure experimental reasons I put together a one way valve and a restrictor between baro and MAP. I only get 3-4 lbs of boost now, but it does not surge and will rev and shift at WOT.

View attachment 281359



These appear to be original but they are placed behind valve cover. There appear to be no splices or restrictors placed in any of vacuum tubing.

View attachment 281363
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There are a couple of two ways in the valley. I can definitely take them apart and check for any debris.
Looks like you're doing an old school Dodge garage map sensor bleed. You can try blocking off everything else vacuum related and then just run the map sensor maybe you have a leak somewhere....
 

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But at WOT the computer actually ignores the map sensor and goes off a predetermined table...

No, the ECU uses the map all the time to determine fuel off tables in the code. What it does ignore at wot is the o2 sensor.


On the masi 16V intakes, they actually had to run vacuum barbs off the bottom of the plenum for packaging reasons. Their solution was to run tubes inside the fittings to extend out of the floor.
Keep at it, you're making progress!
Todd is still teaching me stuff after 22 years with these cars
 

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Discussion Starter · #46 ·
Silly question, I am going to buy some vacuum hose in bulk, what sizes should I buy?
 

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Discussion Starter · #48 ·
I know it has been awhile, been pretty busy with larger irons. I did have time to mess around with the vacuum lines, I did replace some with some scrap to experiment, and how it revs out has changed, but not improved. So it is something with the vacuum system, I just need to replace everything with NEW, and go from there.
 

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85 New Yorker 2.2 T1, multiple red 1991 Spirit R/T's, lots of bits and pieces
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FWIW, I ended up changing the MAP/BAR on the LeBaron not once but FOUR times before it ran right. I had a new one and three known-good spares. One of the known-good spares worked. Along the way, I had a similar behavior from one of the sensors, I believe it was the new one. It seemed like SMEC was way more picky about the MAP/BAR input for some reason. I also zip-tied the hoses onto the sensor nipples. Without it, they would still leak during boost no matter what. (Granted, in my case the bigger problem was that the ground wire was broken off of the fuel pump inside the tank, so it was getting ground from the metal hose. That car had many, many....many problems.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #50 ·
FWIW, I ended up changing the MAP/BAR on the LeBaron not once but FOUR times before it ran right. I had a new one and three known-good spares. One of the known-good spares worked. Along the way, I had a similar behavior from one of the sensors, I believe it was the new one. It seemed like SMEC was way more picky about the MAP/BAR input for some reason. I also zip-tied the hoses onto the sensor nipples. Without it, they would still leak during boost no matter what. (Granted, in my case the bigger problem was that the ground wire was broken off of the fuel pump inside the tank, so it was getting ground from the metal hose. That car had many, many....many problems.)
I remember reading about your LeBaron, and how difficult it was to find the issue. During this process I did read and reference your thread as a guide for my van.
 

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FWIW, I ended up changing the MAP/BAR on the LeBaron not once but FOUR times before it ran right. I had a new one and three known-good spares. One of the known-good spares worked. Along the way, I had a similar behavior from one of the sensors, I believe it was the new one. It seemed like SMEC was way more picky about the MAP/BAR input for some reason. I also zip-tied the hoses onto the sensor nipples. Without it, they would still leak during boost no matter what. (Granted, in my case the bigger problem was that the ground wire was broken off of the fuel pump inside the tank, so it was getting ground from the metal hose. That car had many, many....many problems.)
If your vacuum hoses are leaking under boost then they are probably the wrong size too loose. I usually take the sensors off the car walk into autozone and match up with the rolls of hoses they have in the back. they're usually a dollar a foot. You can redo the whole thing in the store parking lot takes probably 20 30 minutes. And they have reducers T's etc.
One of the first things to do on these cars when u get em. This platform came out over 40 years ago so the small plastic and rubber vac hoses are mostly toast and the engine is running limp mode with all the sensors not reading right.

 

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Discussion Starter · #53 ·
Well...I was gonna be a dork and reference your first videos and say the problem was your parking brake was still on. ;-)
Ha! That is actually how bad the brakes are on the van, the light is on. The pedal almost touches the floor when you go to brake. and with front struts doing nothing, makes for an interesting drive when speed kicks in.
 

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Discussion Starter · #54 ·
Well, spent the past week tinkering on the van, mainly as Vanna left me stranded at Lowes couple weeks ago. Went inside to get some things, and came out, there was a huge puddle under her.

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What a way to start a Monday morning! 😕 When I looked at it first, it looked like oil. I got a truck and dolly, got here home. Upon further investigation, the coolant hose for the turbo burst at the rubber joint. Tearing it down, I thought, good time to do a valve cover gasket and redo all of the vacuum hoses. So I ordered valve cover fitting, a Toyota PCV valve, 6 way block, and hose. In the meantime I gutted the interior to clean it, and make this repair to the rear hatch area.

Brown Automotive tire Tread Wood Window


That is the drivers side strut hatch mount on the body. F&^%#$% beautiful, right? I did not notice this until the morning after I brought her home. I think this deserves some kind of award?!
🏆🏆

So I cut the area out and patched in a new section.

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And finished, not too bad for beginner.

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So today I spent the day redoing all of the vacuum lines, repairing the engine harness, and putting everything back together
  • All new hose
  • New 6 way vacuum block
  • Toyota metal PCV valve
Took it out for a test drive, thinking it had something to do with vacuum/boost leak, and all of the upgrades made no difference of the original issue of the engine surging. It still will not rev out and shift. GRRRR!

Not sure where to turn next to resolve this issue. One thing I have not tried I thought of just sitting here writing this post is the 2-3 shift. So far I have only tried with the 1-2 shift, but not the 2-3. I will have to try a 2-3 shift and see what happens.
 

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Well, spent the past week tinkering on the van, mainly as Vanna left me stranded at Lowes couple weeks ago. Went inside to get some things, and came out, there was a huge puddle under her.

View attachment 282102

What a way to start a Monday morning! 😕 When I looked at it first, it looked like oil. I got a truck and dolly, got here home. Upon further investigation, the coolant hose for the turbo burst at the rubber joint. Tearing it down, I thought, good time to do a valve cover gasket and redo all of the vacuum hoses. So I ordered valve cover fitting, a Toyota PCV valve, 6 way block, and hose. In the meantime I gutted the interior to clean it, and make this repair to the rear hatch area.

View attachment 282103

That is the drivers side strut hatch mount on the body. F&^%#$% beautiful, right? I did not notice this until the morning after I brought her home. I think this deserves some kind of award?!
🏆🏆

So I cut the area out and patched in a new section.

View attachment 282104

And finished, not too bad for beginner.

View attachment 282105

So today I spent the day redoing all of the vacuum lines, repairing the engine harness, and putting everything back together
  • All new hose
  • New 6 way vacuum block
  • Toyota metal PCV valve
Took it out for a test drive, thinking it had something to do with vacuum/boost leak, and all of the upgrades made no difference of the original issue of the engine surging. It still will not rev out and shift. GRRRR!

Not sure where to turn next to resolve this issue. One thing I have not tried I thought of just sitting here writing this post is the 2-3 shift. So far I have only tried with the 1-2 shift, but not the 2-3. I will have to try a 2-3 shift and see what happens.
I just checked your 1st post it says you have the plugs gapped at .40 they should be at .35 but if you're running more boost set them to .30 and make sure they're clean.

If the gap is too big or the Ignition system is weak the boost will actually blow out the flame and it will just lose power Like you described. Only takes 5 mins to do...
 

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Discussion Starter · #56 ·
If the gap is too big or the Ignition system is weak the boost will actually blow out the flame and it will just lose power Like you described. Only takes 5 mins to do...
When I first started TS this issue, I was looking at my Rampage and I looked at the coil and coil in van. Back of my mind said, "Swap them out". Not sure as the coil in Rampage has a capacitor attached to it, and the coil on the van has no capacitor. Not sure if they are interchangeable, or if with the SMEC I must use a coil w/out a cap.

Can I swap coils?
 

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All Chrysler coils on our cars are the same until they went to the epoxy filled brick style coils in 91.
1.2 - 1.6 ohms primary resistance.
9000 - 13000 ohms secondary resistance.
The "capacitor" you see is a "radio noise suppressor" which stops noise from the ignition system from coming through your speakers.
Ignition noise is static while alternator noise is a whirling noise.
 

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Discussion Starter · #58 ·
So.... swapped coils with my Rampage, regapped plugs to .30 and went for a drive. Same thing; 4500rpm it peaks out, dies, falls to 4000 rpm and revs to 4500, dies, falls to 4000, comes alive to 4500, dies. As it is dying and rpms are falling to 4000, sometimes I can hear popping coming back into the airbox.

Also tried 2-3 shift, and it does it on 1-2 and 2-3 shift, 4500 it stops revving. Also I notice if I lift the gas just a hint, it shifts and keeps going.

Picture of plugs, top to bottom - 1-4. #3 is a bit lighter color, but no carbon, no white spotting, to me a good brown color.

Van Coil: Primary - 2.1 ohm, Secondary 13,000 ohm

Rampage Coil: Primary - 2.0 ohm, Secondary 10,000 ohm

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Popping/backfire from the intake manifold usually indicates Cam Timing is not correct or as I stated previously you are experiencing "knock retard".
Also, the lack of power issue could be related to an air intake restriction, exhaust system restriction or a fuel pressure issue.
If you verified that the ignition system is capable of 30 KVs at all four cylinders then ignition is not your issue.
 

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Great patch on the rear pillar! I had a 2000 and a 2006, and both had been mangled and ripped out on that pillar when I bought them. One was powered, and the other was not, but I never did figure out why it happened.
 
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