[Intruder]

Have an 87 shelby z daytona with a 2.2l turbo II from a newer daytona. Sat for 3 years, finally got it to my house and got it running. Like all old cars that sit for extended periods of time, there are issues that arise.

There's an aftermarket oil pressure gauge installed by previous owner that just dangles near the top of the dash. When i first start the car and the engine's cold, it will read near the middle of the gauge (45-50psi). Car isnt drivable yet, so i just start it and let it run to go through the bases.

Factory heat and oil gauge doesnt work, but after it runs for awhile the low oil light comes on and the aftermarket gauge will read almost dead 0 and will rise if i get on the throttle a bit. When this happens the engine sounds different, sort of like a rough idle but not as bad, but there isnt a knock or anything.

I'm thinking i should do a oil pump since i have a gallon of oil and a filter to put on, but im also thinking, maybe the filter is clogged and the oil just lost its viscosity from sitting.

On one hand, i do the oil change that might help it, but if i end up having to do a pump anyway, that would be somewhat pointless unless i can cleanly save the oil i drain.

From what i've read there should be 10psi of oil per 1000 rpm, and 6-9 was common at a hot idle. The pump doesnt look hard to do, unless its a timing belt pump (which i absolutely dread doing) so is there anything i should check before i jump on the oil train? ill try to record a video of it the next time it happens.

thanks for any input and advice.

EDIT: sorry for the mistake, just realized this was the wrong thread.

 

[tryingbe]

Oil pump create volume, bearings clearence create pressure.

The engine will need to be rebuild with new bearings, puting in a new oil pump will NOT solve the low oil pressure issue.

 

[netnews]

If the motor is healthy, compression l& leak down

I would first try rod bearing and a high volume oil pump


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App

 

[ILIKESHELBYS]

Oil pump create volume, bearings clearance create pressure.

The engine will need to be rebuild with new bearings, putting in a new oil pump will NOT solve the low oil pressure issue.

This statement is quite correct. The old Mopar Performance hi-volume pumps are just the later style pumps the only difference being that the pickup tube and the hole in the pump that it attaches to is larger than the early style pumps. An 87 Shelby Z probably already had the later large tube pump in it. Last I looked, something advertised as a hi-flow or hi-performance oil pump for a 2.2 could not be found. If the engine does not make any knocking noise when first cranked after sitting a while, then you might help the condition and improve low hot oil pressure with replacing the rod bearings, main bearings as well if possible...but that will only be a temporary fix, it really needs to have the crank turned and undersized bearings installed to be a good fix.

I have had similar engines, with oil pumps with 100K+ miles on them and then installed new factory oil pumps with no change in the hot oil pressure. I have also changed rod bearings trying to fix the same problem and have not had any real good results with that approach either. But if it doesn't rattle at all when first started, there might be hope that the cranks is still round (enough) and the clearance is close (enough) to spec, and in that case, just some rod bearings will at least help. I think buying and installing a new pump (factory) is a waste of time except for the fact that you are going to be in there already. If course if you have a feeler gauge you can measure the rotors of the pump to determine if it is worn out or not.

Also note that it is really easy for the upper half of the bearing to slide a little bit off center when trying to do the rod bearings. You have got to be sure that the small locating tab on the bearing upper portion is in it's little groove on the big end of the rod when you install and tighten the cap. And that sucker needs to be clean when doing all that. You obviously don't want any grit, dirt or grime going in under the bearing during installation.

There is one or two remote other causes and that would be if:

1. Someone had the block machined prior and the machine shop did not re-install the oil restrictor in the deck. This will make a turbo car run low on oil pressure. The oil restrictor is a small inset that goes in the block to head oil supply hole, it has a small hole in it to keep oil pressure where it needs to be because of the turbo oil supply line.

2. The oil manifold on the front of the engine was removed and then reinstalled too deeply. If the oil manifold (where the oil pressure switch is mounted) is screwed too far in, this can partially block the oil galley tube that runs the length of the front of the block and cause low oil pressure.

 

[byghtn]

Are you running a new "5wXX" oil?

What oil are you running?

 

[Intruder]

Alright, thanks for the help. My brother's the mechanic in the family, im mostly the tool guy. I'll start pricing bearings but thatll most likely be a long time before i get the funds to do it.

Are the rod bearings exceptionally hard to do, ive never had any engine apart that far and would think the crank would have to come out completely.

 

[Intruder]

Are you running a new "5wXX" oil?

What oil are you running?

Not sure, ill have to ask the guy i bought it from what he was using, but i have a gallon of 10w30 conventional i was about to put in. Never liked synthetic in my opinion.

 

[ILIKESHELBYS]

It's not very difficult at all in most turbo Dodge cars from the 80s and early 90s. The oil pan comes off in just a few minutes. Then typically, you position the crank using a prybar to get two of the rod caps as low as possible. Then you just loosen and remove the two nuts that hold on the rod cap. A few taps with a hard plastic mallet or pushing up on the rod bolts will seperate the cap from the rod. You slip the new bearing halfs in place and then reinstall the cap after you get the rod big end to rest on the crank journal again...being VERY careful to observe the tang on the bearing half is properly positioned in the small grove cut in the rod end as well as in the rod cap. MAKE SURE that you observe the position and side of the tang when you remove the cap and BE POSITIVE to not rotate the cap 180* by mistake and put it on backwards. They only fit properly one way! ...but you can easily assemble them incorrectly.

But, it's pretty easy. The entire job can be done in a few hours. You will need a proper torque wrench as well.

 

[Intruder]

START HERE !!

someone has been fiddeling around installing an aftermarket oil gauge

so.. first thing to do is check their work - not the car so much it's self

remove the oil press sender and low oil press light sender

now check both are free of obstructions - ie teflon tape over the end blocking the hole or part of it

next check the multy way block sticking out of the front of the motor that the oil sendors thread into

is it clean inside

more importantly , is it threadded all the way into the block until it stops being able to be threaded in further

if so you might have just found your problem

if the block the sendor mount on it threaded to far into the block it it's self will become the blockage in the system because the threaded end is so far into the block that it is restricting or blocking the passageway inside the block which isn't much bigger than the threaded end of the sensor mount block thingy

edit
I should add that if you can see the "neck" of the portion that threads into the block between the fat part of the sensor mount bar and the engine it's PROBABLY NOT threaded in to far

if the fat part is snug right up to the block or only a couple of mm away from it , then it's likely threaded in much to far

only the threaded portion of the neck should be threaded into the engine - the portion without thread should be compleately vissiable to the eye even with just a quick glance at it

edit 2

if that isn't the issue the next thing I would do is swap the old filter for the new one and top up the oil as needed

if that still hasn't solved the problem it's time to go inside the motor

edit 3

lol
this might be why the new gauge is still just haning

the p-o spent the time to install it and it didn't work after and it messed up the warning lamp too scareing him into selling it to you

??

I hadnt considered that seeing as the gauge worked well when its first started, thanks for the advice, ill go check it in a bit if i have the time.

I doubt the p-o damaged it then threw it on me. It sat for 3 years and i only paid $400 for the car, so i knew it would end up needing work.

He offered to help with anything it needed, so maybe ill have him walk me through what he did.

 

[ILIKESHELBYS]

In a turbo car you probably should use the synthetic oil... If it was good enough for Carroll Shelby it should be good enough for a daily driver. The turbo is pretty tough on conventional oil especially after you shut the engine off. You dont want dino juice cooking down to coke/carbon deposits in your turbo housing....which is what it will do especially if you dont give the engine a chance to idle and cool down a bit before shutting it off.

 

[Intruder]

That makes alot of sense. I can take my oil back and exchange for synthetic i think, what oil would you suggest? And thanks for the input.

 

[Intruder]

I believe this is the oil sender, but i could be wrong. Its on the driver side and front of engine. It doesnt look like its screwed flush to the block.

 

[Intruder]

This is the gauge on first start after sitting from yesterday.

 

[ILIKESHELBYS]

That makes alot of sense. I can take my oil back and exchange for synthetic i think, what oil would you suggest? And thanks for the input.

Well, these days everybody has a synthetic oil. Mobil1 is our drink of choice but there are now many many other options. The factory suggested fill for Shelby numbered turbo cars was always Mobile1. Opinions on what weight oil is best caries quite a bit, but it is mostly your temperature range that should influence your decision on weight. It's hard to be 'wrong' with synthetic 10W30 for most climates. In a hot climate you might consider a 10W40. In a very cold climate you might consider a 0W30 which is very common now.

The forum buzz is that we want to avoid the thick w50's and the thin 0W20's.

Personally I still use the old school Mobil1 and I have also used the Penzoil Platinum which is made from natural gas. But I have also been prone to also watch for oil on sale and knowing that I don't go more than 2500-3000 on a change and filter makes brand much less important.

The days of looking for the API rating on the bottle are all but gone and lack of industry standardization and labeling standards and requirements makes it hard to know or evaluate what is actually in the jug these days.

Don't cheap out on the oil filter either. Get a better quality unit (like maybe a Bosch) Vs the cheapest store brand. NAPA Gold filters seem to be good, and Mobil also makes a good filter. Opinions vary on the Fram..but again, if you change oil and filter often, the inside of your engine will look great at 100K miles if you were using synthetic.

 

[Intruder]

That makes alot of sense. I can take my oil back and exchange for synthetic i think, what oil would you suggest? And thanks for the input.

Well, these days everybody has a synthetic oil. Mobil1 is our drink of choice but there are now many many other options. The factory suggested fill for Shelby numbered turbo cars was always Mobile1. Opinions on what weight oil is best caries quite a bit, but it is mostly your temperature range that should influence your decision on weight. It's hard to be 'wrong' with synthetic 10W30 for most climates. In a hot climate you might consider a 10W40. In a very cold climate you might consider a 0W30 which is very common now.

The forum buzz is that we want to avoid the thick w50's and the thin 0W20's.

Personally I still use the old school Mobil1 and I have also used the Penzoil Platinum which is made from natural gas. But I have also been prone to also watch for oil on sale and knowing that I don't go more than 2500-3000 on a change and filter makes brand much less important.

The days of looking for the API rating on the bottle are all but gone and lack of industry standardization and labeling standards and requirements makes it hard to know or evaluate what is actually in the jug these days.

Don't cheap out on the oil filter either. Get a better quality unit (like maybe a Bosch) Vs the cheapest store brand. NAPA Gold filters seem to be good, and Mobil also makes a good filter. Opinions vary on the Fram..but again, if you change oil and filter often, the inside of your engine will look great at 100K miles if you were using synthetic.

Sounds like a plan, when i get a couple bucks ill take the filter and oil back and get something a little better.

 

[Intruder]

Here it is after 10-15 minutes of running at idle. Has a slight surge and barely noticeable backfire. I had done plugs and wires 2 or 3 days ago, so i wouldnt think the surging is from a tuneup.

 

[Intruder]

And here's the gauge at the first idle drop. Idled picjed up a few seconds later and there is no knocking or pinging, only rattle i hear is coming from the exhaust and a bare pulley.

 

[Intruder]

It's not very difficult at all in most turbo Dodge cars from the 80s and early 90s. The oil pan comes off in just a few minutes. Then typically, you position the crank using a prybar to get two of the rod caps as low as possible. Then you just loosen and remove the two nuts that hold on the rod cap. A few taps with a hard plastic mallet or pushing up on the rod bolts will seperate the cap from the rod. You slip the new bearing halfs in place and then reinstall the cap after you get the rod big end to rest on the crank journal again...being VERY careful to observe the tang on the bearing half is properly positioned in the small grove cut in the rod end as well as in the rod cap. MAKE SURE that you observe the position and side of the tang when you remove the cap and BE POSITIVE to not rotate the cap 180* by mistake and put it on backwards. They only fit properly one way! ...but you can easily assemble them incorrectly.

But, it's pretty easy. The entire job can be done in a few hours. You will need a proper torque wrench as well.

that doesnt sound bad at all, worst comes to worst. Thanks for the detailed info.

 

[tryingbe]

Does the oil smell like gas? I once had an engine that replace its oil with gas in a couple hundred of miles.

 

[Intruder]

Actually, just checked the oil again after it cooled down some and i noticed it had a gas smell to it.