[Glhs60]

I had a similar issue a while back and needed to keep the car operational.

As #2 intake rocker popped off I also removed # 2 exhaust and unplugged #2 injector.

The Engine ran fine with a miss although it was only running on 3 cylinders.

Not perfect but fully functional and reliable so I could evaluate the rest of the car.

I wasn't able to pull the head for a while but wanted it to be reliably functional.

My case was a dropped seat but the effect is similar to a sticking/stuck intake valve.

A sticking or stuck intake valve can cause obvious havoc with the other cylinders.

Keeping the exhaust closed insulates the havoc from the good 3 cylinders.

+ 20's with a T-II cal on a 2.5 is about perfect as this is what Cindy supplied.

520/ 555 have reverse in the correct spot, 523/ 568 are in the wrong spot, below 5rd.

I guess I'm lucky, my local Tims Muffler can do beautiful custom exhaust.

I agree with Todd though, most exhaust shops are useless!!

Thanks
Randy

 

[03GLHWRX]

NAJ:
1) Far from stock as I said in the first post its forged pistons, forged rods, ported, +1mm valve sizes, cam, 2.5L, oil pump, +20 injectors, TU 3" swing valve, and what else I don't know. The basic engine built for speed, its just not being used for that at the moment. It has 4,000 miles on it. Oh and, there's a fancy TU exhaust manifold that was on it but temporarily off until I modify the 3" exhaust to mate with it.
2) The wiring harness is modified T1 GLH, with modifications for the T2 idle speed controller and remote MAP and maybe more (I didn't convert it to T2). Its got a LM and a PM and the LM is a FWD Performance stage 3.
3) Its got a 2 bar MAP sensor but its not on the LM, its under the hood and I'm not sure if its a stock MAP sensor or not, its what Cindy told me I needed with the calibration.
4) +20% injectors, Walboro 255 L/hr., adjustable FPR set to stock pressure
5) No cam adjustability. Timing was set by the engine builder and I've not taken it apart.
6) Intercooled but only a stock intercooler. Stock Garrett turbo. I can see how both of these will change once I get some basic fixes in place (Correcting error codes & c., wideband, detonation sensor, boost gauge, grainger valve)

All: I've got a severe problem with my starter heat shield, its decomposed to the point that 2/3 of the mineral wool has fallen off and about 1/3 of the aluminum has fallen off at fold lines. In February I had a starter fail because a plastic fork inside it melted. Its June now and I can't believe I've gotten this far without it melting again. What is the current best thing to use as starter heat shield? The starter rebuilder in Feb. gave me some aluminized adhesive sheet that he said was plenty thick but its only about .080" thick, nothing like the original and local car parts stores only seem to have thin tapes for header wrapping.

 

[03GLHWRX]

GLHS60:
I did that once also, drove to work 2 days in a row with an Olds V8 in which I'd pulled both push rods on one cylinder though its been so long I don't remember what was wrong that caused me to do it. Much better than having gas run through it or upsetting the fuel controls. Even considered (but didn't) converting it to 4 cylinders for the 550 mile trip to school as a poor college student.

 

[03GLHWRX]

My reverse is on the left and up, what GLHS60 calls "proper".

 

[NAJ]

Besides possibly having engine mechanical issues which you are currently working on I have concerns about you using a 2.2L calibration on a 2.5L engine.
Mods are not my thing but I learned and retained a lot of knowledge from this site and I remember folks saying that the fueling and spark advance tables are not the same between a 2.2 and 2.5L, you may want to talk to Cindy about that.
I mentioned the Adjustable Cam Sprocket because with your head and cam mods stock cam timing may not be optimal for your setup.
I installed one on my car only because I got tired of trying 2 -3 times to get everything perfect when I replaced or had the timing belt off, if I am off 1/2 tooth I can adjust for that.

 

[Glhs60]

I converted a 1966 283 Chevy to 4 cyl years ago as an experiment and it was tolerable.

An inoperable exhaust valve on a carb Engine can cause continual, terrible intake backfire.

No doubt that was the issue with your Olds, seen it lots on flat cam 305 Chevys.

I disconnected many intake rockers in my day as a temp fix for folks.

Removing the exhaust rocker on your Engine will eliminate any internal vacuum leak.

Not a permanent fix but it should make diagnosing easier.

It then should run fine with a slight regular miss on 3 cylinders.

Its nice to pinpoint the problem before spending money and time.

Was it a coincidence Mopar made + 20 injectors??

Is it a coincidence 2.5's are almost 20% larger??

I like to experiment in advance to get a feel for things.

EG: Advancing/retarding cam 1 tooth on a fine running Engine.

Running a fine running 1989 2.5 T-1 on a 1988 2.2 T-1 SMEC.

Running a blow through intake on a draw through electronics.

Windshield washer reservoir/pump as a temporary fuel system.

Thanks
Randy

GLHS60:
I did that once also, drove to work 2 days in a row with an Olds V8 in which I'd pulled both push rods on one cylinder though its been so long I don't remember what was wrong that caused me to do it. Much better than having gas run through it or upsetting the fuel controls. Even considered (but didn't) converting it to 4 cylinders for the 550 mile trip to school as a poor college student.

 

[03GLHWRX]

So yea, I hear NAJ's point that the right cal for 2.2 won't be the right cal for 2.5 but I think I've got a lot of steps to go before I boost this to even factory stock levels and its probably a fair bit further up the boost gauge progression before that difference becomes significant. Also, as GLHS60 points out my injectors are correspondingly sized. And with AFPR I could change fuel pressure if I got serious and saw the fuel trims heading away from center. Which doesn't make it perfect but does reduce the error on the fueling side at which point the cam and exhaust and other mods probably put the map off of ideal more than displacement. On the spark side, yea, its probably diverged from optimal but as long as its not knocking for now that'll work.

My only significant concern with the map being off kilter at my current mellow power level is that I may be laying down carbon in the combustion chamber which could eventually come back to bite me as a source of pre-ignition & detonation which would limit the amount of boost the engine could take. Though with the head coming off soon the build up so far can be countered.

And in other news, I finally got the tarp and temporary plywood floor out of the back of the car since I'm nearly done with my shop project and won't be shuttling large steel parts between the blanchard grinder, water jet guy, plater etc. Seems unrelated to this forum but it makes for a big improvement to the car when you get your back seat back and it becomes a car again.

Going back to the plan for fixing the stucky valve... The engine builder will fix it but its got to go 500 miles each way. Seems like the shipping might cost more than just fixing it myself. I've never gotten into valve guides, whats involved? Remove the valve and run a proper sized reamer through it? How difficult would it be to put in a new valve guide if it needs it, is that something I could press in myself with a hydraulic press or a Bridgeport as a press? Or what might it cost at a local shop?

 

[NAJ]

Find a local machine shop with a good rep that the racers use and talk to them about the head issue.
As far as your MAP, FWD Performance website says your Stage 3 Call is 15 lbs of boost.
I am assuming they rounded up and that means a 2 Bar Map which would actually be 14.5 lbs of boost, not 15.
Assuming you are running the correct MAP your issue is related to fluctuating/low vacuum, not an actual MAP circuit issue.
As I stated earlier, first you need a sound mechanical base, once you know the engine itself is sound ( bottom end, valve train, cam timing)then you verify the ignition and fuel systems are operating correctly then electronic engine controls.
Do not work on more than one at a time so if something goes wrong you know where to look for the problem.

 

[03GLHWRX]

The stage 3 cal can go to 14.5 or 15 but in my case I'm not using it that way. My waste gate is connected to my intake manifold with nothing but hose which results in (by seat of the pants only) low single digits psi. I've currently got less HP than when the car left Kenosha.

 

[NAJ]

I am not concerned about how much boost you are running, I am concerned about wheater this calibration requires a 2 Bar or a 3 bar map sensor and if you are using the correct MAP sensor for the calibration.
A calibration that requires a 2 Bar map cannot read a 3 bar map sensor and vice versa.
1 bar of atmosphere is = to 14.5 PSI.
As far as Map Sensors go, 0 PSI is considered 1 Bar, 14.5 PSI is considered 2 bar, 15 - 29 PSI would be 3 bar.
The description of your cal states " up to 15 lbs of boost" so does it require a 2 or 3 bar map sensor.

 

[03GLHWRX]

I don't know (forgot) and I don't care whether its a 2 bar or a 3 bar map sensor until the next time I go to get a new calibration or stand alone EM. Cindy said that's the correct MAP sensor (and injectors) for that cal and she knows more about it than I do. If the cal needs a 2 bar and its got a 3 bar or if it needs a 3 bar but has a 2 bar then the difference would be glaring and it wouldn't run well but it does so its the correct sensor. I know how it runs when I've swapped between the 2 types in the past as an experiment, its ugly. Its not like they make 2.1 bar or 2.9 bar sensors, with a MAP sensor you can't be kind of wrong and there's nothing to indicate there's been calibration drift or anything.

 

[4 L-bodies]

So yea, I hear NAJ's point that the right cal for 2.2 won't be the right cal for 2.5 but I think I've got a lot of steps to go before I boost this to even factory stock levels and its probably a fair bit further up the boost gauge progression before that difference becomes significant. Also, as GLHS60 points out my injectors are correspondingly sized. And with AFPR I could change fuel pressure if I got serious and saw the fuel trims heading away from center. Which doesn't make it perfect but does reduce the error on the fueling side at which point the cam and exhaust and other mods probably put the map off of ideal more than displacement. On the spark side, yea, its probably diverged from optimal but as long as its not knocking for now that'll work.

My only significant concern with the map being off kilter at my current mellow power level is that I may be laying down carbon in the combustion chamber which could eventually come back to bite me as a source of pre-ignition & detonation which would limit the amount of boost the engine could take. Though with the head coming off soon the build up so far can be countered.

And in other news, I finally got the tarp and temporary plywood floor out of the back of the car since I'm nearly done with my shop project and won't be shuttling large steel parts between the blanchard grinder, water jet guy, plater etc. Seems unrelated to this forum but it makes for a big improvement to the car when you get your back seat back and it becomes a car again.

Going back to the plan for fixing the stucky valve... The engine builder will fix it but its got to go 500 miles each way. Seems like the shipping might cost more than just fixing it myself. I've never gotten into valve guides, whats involved? Remove the valve and run a proper sized reamer through it? How difficult would it be to put in a new valve guide if it needs it, is that something I could press in myself with a hydraulic press or a Bridgeport as a press? Or what might it cost at a local shop?

Guides are easy to install. You just need the proper tool to remove and replace them using a air hammer. Buying the correct tool will prevent any damage during install. You can buy the air hammer guide tool here at Goodson.com.
Part # PH-2228A-G $19.99

Air Powered Valve Guide Drivers - SAE

Remove and install valve guides easily with these air powered guide drivers. Available individually. Fit guide IDs from .312" to .437".

goodson.com

Buy the guides that have a built-in wire stop. They were once very prevalent, but now you have to look a little bit for them. I have found some will show a picture of a guide with a built-in stop, and then when you open the box or get them in the mail they won't have the stop. Classic case of companies buying up other companies, and stuff getting consolidated. Typically the intake guides don't drop often but the exhaust do and often. The stop will aid as a guide to know what height to set the guides at.

My bet is guide got buggered up on install. At this point valve stem might be buggered up too. Time will tell. Another thing to look for is to determine if the guides were replaced when the head was refreshed. This is important as the factory guides ID were gang drilled (meaning not concentric with the OD of guide). The replacement guides are made concentric, so what this means is if you place a concentric guide in a head that had a fresh valve job using non concentric guides, the valve will never seal correctly without re-cutting the seat. Some factory guides are close to being concentric, while others are a loooong ways off. I know your a mechanical engineer, so I'm sure your following me on this. If the guides were replaced prior to the recent valve job, just replacing the guide with a new one, you should be able to just lap in the new valve and be ready to reassemble after checking guide to valve stem clearance.

It is very possible that you can just have a machine shop run a reamer through the existing guide and you'll be good to go. I would still get the valve seat/valve lapped in or redressed whatever it needs. Check that valve carefully for being bent now that it has been sticking in that guide.

 

[srt4maddness]

Hmm, started to reply to NAJ's question but then saw the subtly to it and I'm going to sit back and see how others respond.

Now while I've got y'all's attention here's another line of questioning that will come into play when the head comes offa the thing. When I had the engine built I had the nifty Turbos Unleashed offset exhaust manifold header put on it but given that I had to install the engine and get the car running in a rush because I needed a car and given that I didn't have the corresponding offset in the down pipe I replaced the fancy exhaust manifold with whatever stock manifold was laying around. When I go back in I'll want to offset my down pipe and put back the fancy TU offset manifold. What's the easiest and / or best way to offset the down pipe? Heat and bend? Give it to an exhaust shop (who I'd probably not get along well with). Weld in pre-made bends (would need to find a welder with a hoist)? Is there a pre-made kit? I don't see anything on the TU website to accommodate that manifold.

There are 3 bends in the Downpipe. TU told me to remove the one furthest from the turbocharger and replace it with a straight pipe. After that everything lined right up for me.

Ben