2 Roller Rockers fell off. HELP!

1171 Views 34 Replies 11 Participants Last post by Xplizit, May 25, 2005

Xplizit

Discussion Starter · May 14, 2005 (Edited)

OK, so my water pump blew, car overheated. 1st and 4th cylinders had no compression after i installed the new waterpump and tried to start it. I thought Headgasket. I removed the VC and found the 2nd and 8th roller rockers had fallen off and the valves below them seem to be stuck down/open. HELP someone. what do i do now. i removed the camshaft and replaced the RR's then put the camshaft back in, but the 2 RR's in question are too low..... these are the intake valves! this should be why i had no compression, but what do i do to fix it?

My car is in pieces and i'm lost!!!! :bang head HELP please!

1 - 20 of 35 Posts

Garret

· #2 · May 14, 2005

Sounds like your valve seals dropped. I had that happen to me on a Turbo Z once, unfortunatly the only fix is to pull the head

Xplizit

Discussion Starter · #3 · May 14, 2005

what do i do after i pull the head? ive never done this before

MVaughn

· #4 · May 15, 2005

Garret said:
Sounds like your valve seals dropped. I had that happen to me on a Turbo Z once, unfortunatly the only fix is to pull the head

The valve seals have nothing to do with the valve being kept open. Maybe you meant valve guides.
If the car overheated it is possible that the valve guides have dropped as they are press fit in. Pull the valve cover again and look at the spring that the valve is in question. If the guides drop the seal usually won't stay where it should, so look at the valve seal closely. If the guides have dropped then the head will have to come off. You should also make sure the head is flat after you pull everything. Good luck.

PTT

· #5 · May 15, 2005

Valve guides.......

A Florida cracker shadetree mechanic once told me I had the dropped valve guide on the #2 valve because of over revving the engine (1991 2.5L TBI). Made sense to me as the previous owner had a 16 year old son who thought it was cool to floor the gas pegal and dump the clutch. It had the #2 roller laying in the oil valley and the valve guide had slipped down and was holding it's valve down/open. I had a 1993 head that I swapped out and it's been running great since. Still have that original head and I always wondered what would be involved with getting the valve guide back up into the head. Would the valve itself need to be removed in order to tap the valve guide back into place or is the valve guide ruined and have to be replaced??

glhsken

· #6 · May 15, 2005

Any competant machine shop can do the work. You are looking at 200+ in maching work. well worth it. Dirt cheap

PTT.. the seat can be re-worked. Yesd\ remove the valve and re work the seat.

Bock's car

· #7 · May 15, 2005

I once had a 1981 k-car with a 2.2 & i blew lifters at 3 different times. Had to pick shrapnal out of the head & replace the lifter & rocker. & i didn't over rev it. Has this happen to anyone else?

PTT

· #8 · May 15, 2005

valves......

PTT.. the seat can be re-worked. Yesd\ remove the valve and re work the seat.

How would I get the valve guide back into the head? Tap it in?

Garret

· #9 · May 15, 2005

Sorry, meant seat not seal.... whoops

The Pope

· #10 · May 15, 2005

OMG people, the guides don't effect the valve staying open. The only place it can go is toward the cam for starters. Our 8v heads crack in the combustion chambers to the intake seat. You over heat an engine and the head can crack there real easy. Then with the crack there the seat falls out. With the seat sitting sideways the valve hits it early and stays open. Your head is garbage, even going to a bigger seat wouldn't help, 99% chance your combustion chambers are cracked. The total description tells the story. The head is cheap to replace, go find a good looking turbo car in a junk yard and get the head off it. Then have it cleaned and pressure checked, if it passes bolt it on. If you paid a bunch of money on porting this head now would be a good time to cry, if not it won't be a big deal really. Here locally I would pay about $100 in everything to fix that.

Xplizit

Discussion Starter · #11 · May 15, 2005

there doesnt seem to be any coolant in the oil. the overheat may not have been that bad. but the 2 valves ARE stuck open. the HG doesnt look bad either so maybe the overheat isint bad enough to crack the cylinders. im going to try to fin another head today, maybe try to find a 827 head.

The Pope

· #12 · May 15, 2005

Xplizit said:
there doesnt seem to be any coolant in the oil. the overheat may not have been that bad. but the 2 valves ARE stuck open. the HG doesnt look bad either so maybe the overheat isint bad enough to crack the cylinders. im going to try to fin another head today, maybe try to find a 827 head.

782? Did your car come with a 445? Just want the same part number put back on is all. Hey take pics when it comes off, never seen a head lose 2 at once yet. Should be UGLY, but impressive. Don't get a TBI though, make sure you find a turbo head. Happy hunting :thumb:

puppet

· #13 · May 15, 2005

My advice would be to visit your local machinist ... price out a replacement head with your parts.

moparzrule

· #14 · May 15, 2005

My seat dropped in my ported G head, I sent it back to turbo dynamx to be fixed and he did some welding and installed a .001'' oversized seat. Works great now. Point being a dropped seat(s) is fixable, however not cost effective on a stock head. I had $700 invested into my head so I had it fixed!

turbovanman

· #15 · May 16, 2005

moparzrule said:
My seat dropped in my ported G head, I sent it back to turbo dynamx to be fixed and he did some welding and installed a .001'' oversized seat. Works great now. Point being a dropped seat(s) is fixable, however not cost effective on a stock head. I had $700 invested into my head so I had it fixed!

Exactly, anything can be fixed, its a case of how much money you want to spend. Our local head shop does some nice work on otherwise junk heads. They could have fixed my cracked Lotus head but the money they wanted, I can wait and find good one.

The Pope said:
OMG people, the guides don't effect the valve staying open

It could if the valve seized in the guide,

PTT said:
A Florida cracker shadetree mechanic once told me I had the dropped valve guide on the #2 valve because of over revving the engine (1991 2.5L TBI). Made sense to me as the previous owner had a 16 year old son who thought it was cool to floor the gas pegal and dump the clutch. It had the #2 roller laying in the oil valley and the valve guide had slipped down and was holding it's valve down/open. I had a 1993 head that I swapped out and it's been running great since. Still have that original head and I always wondered what would be involved with getting the valve guide back up into the head. Would the valve itself need to be removed in order to tap the valve guide back into place or is the valve guide ruined and have to be replaced??

What my machine shop does is they grind out a little groove into the head and they put a circlip on the guide, ala the 3.0L's, then they can't drop again.

Xplizit

Discussion Starter · #16 · May 16, 2005

so what im hearing is i should find a replacement head in the pick-a-part then. i dont have huge money in this head, but i do have a lot of money into this car now. and i want to keep any further costs down. pick-a-part wants $50 for a head.. if i take it off myself.

providing i can find the right one. but there are many to choose from.

Ray Monk told me if i could find a 827 head that would bolt on and flow better.... i might just try to find one. what years did the 827's come on???

Xplizit

Discussion Starter · #17 · May 16, 2005

whats the reasom you cannot reuse head bolts? they look perfectly fine.

turbovanman

· #18 · May 16, 2005

Xplizit said:
so what im hearing is i should find a replacement head in the pick-a-part then. i dont have huge money in this head, but i do have a lot of money into this car now. and i want to keep any further costs down. pick-a-part wants $50 for a head.. if i take it off myself. providing i can find the right one. but there are many to choose from.

Ray Monk told me if i could find a 827 head that would bolt on and flow better.... i might just try to find one. what years did the 827's come on???

Don't bother, just get the replacement 782 head. I have been to Chiliwack Pickapart, there scattered everywhere as people want the turbo's. Last time there, scored a good head that had just been rebuilt and had the guides circlipped. Thats what I am having ported now,

Look around yard, try to find the turbo cars, then look at the front around the thermostat housing, it will say "782" in big letters. Then look at the drivers side of the head, it will have some letter stampings, you want one that says TS, if it says OS, put it back down, the camshaft journals are oversize. Also try to look for cleaner ones or ones that have newish gray paint, they will be fresh rebuilds. Also we need to know what year your car is for camshaft selection, it makes a difference so-

I guess of course the most important question,

What year is the car?

Head bolts shouldn't be reused, there stretch when used and if reused, they can not hold the head down correctly and you will pop a head gasket again. Buy new ones, there cheap!

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moparzrule

· #19 · May 16, 2005

What year and type of vehicle do you have? This should be first and fore-most.
The reason head bolts cannot be re-used is they stretch when you torque them down. Sometimes they can be used 2-3 times but if they are the originals I'd replace them.

moparzrule

· #20 · May 16, 2005

Looks like Simon and I are on the same page!

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