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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Last year, I dyno tuned my car on E85 at ~21psi, resulted in 290whp
http://www.turbododge.com/forums/f4/f21/1060394-my-8-valves-made-290whp.html

Since then, Microsquirt, more efficient intercooler, and a different turbo went in.
http://www.turbododge.com/forums/f4/f21/1184162-microsquirt.html

This year, I dyno tuned it on E54 at ~24psi, resulted in 350whp

There are two set of dyno pulls on this graph.

Red lines - HP and torque when I started.
Blue lines - HP and torque when I left.

HP vs Torque

HP vs Torque

Red lines - HP and torque when I started.
Blue lines - HP and torque when I left.



I'm more impressed the engine is making 250whp at 12.5 psi.

HP vs AFR


Mods? Lots.
85 glh - Page 2
 

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what changes made the most difference.....timing or fuel?? I suppose dyno is more needed for timing changes? How did lillknockmeter perform during dyno pulls? nice #s!! land
 

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Discussion Starter #3
what changes made the most difference.....timing or fuel??
I'm not sure I understand what you're asking. Would you rephrase and expand it?

I suppose dyno is more needed for timing changes?
Yes. Dyno is a great tool, but it is also expensive.

How did lillknockmeter perform during dyno pulls? nice #s!!
Liliknockmeter listens for sound, it always does its job. It is up to the human to interpret those sound.
 

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sorry questions were not so clear.
when you were on the dyno adjusting the timing map for max hp/torque, did you use the lilknockmeter/detonation sensor to determine max timing, or did you use another method?
Also, from your original tune, compared to the dyno tune, which changes made the most difference in hp/tq, fuel,or ignition timing?
thanks Land
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Honestly, I don't remember.

Fuel is adjusted first to the optimal setting which is depended on the fuel type and RPM, then timing is added until there is no more HP gain, then you back off timing until at no HP gain point, then add more boost, then rinse and repeat. Knock sensor isn't really used in this process as I was told by the dyno tuner that if there is knock, you'll see sudden lost of power on the dyno.

My street tune was a very conservative tune.

First dyno out of the box I did was at 9psi then slowly creep to 13psi, I was surprised it made 250whp. The cam timing was 2 degree advanced, I retarded it to 2 degree retard. The peak HP number didn't change, but the retard did slow down the rapid torque drop off after after peak HP and gained 20hp at the 7000rpm point and we stopped there with the cam timing. That is the redline dyno on the pictures.

We then upped the boost 2-3psi at time, did a run, changed fueling. 15psi made around 270whp, then we added more timing, hp went up. 21psi made around 320whp, then we up the boost to 24psi, and changed added timing to get it to 350whp.

We didn't use lilknockmeter at all.
 

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thanks for reply.....re read some of Hoffman/cramer Hp fuel injection book this am, understanding more, but nice to hear how a real world tune was done with a turbo dodge.
did you use ms tuner studio to make the adjustments to timing and fuel?

did you use your own wideband to monitor a/f ratios or do dyno people have their own a/f and egt instrumentation?
Thanks, land
 

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For the timing wheel you welded to the crank pulley. They have to be steel for the timing sensor to read them right? I love my aluminum UDP and really wouldn't want to lose it. Good Results. I'm not surprised you made 250hp at such a low boost # at all.
 

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posting pics of adjustable 4.6/5.4 ford crank sensor setup (by BBK)

no it won't fit a 2.2 but it comes close enough someone handy might be able to make a hub that fits it to the center of the pulley by the bolts

I have one for my truck so I tried it against the crank pulley .. bolt spacing is definitely wrong - an entire center for it would have to be made - or something to space it out above the heads of the pulley bolts as they prevent it from sitting flat in the center of the pulley

- something like a thick aluminum washer with a hole for the center bolt and 4 or 5 bolt head reliefs drilled into the backside of it (?)
 

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Do you think it's the extreme flow that gives that awesome horsepower at such low boost? What did it run at the baseline 9 PSI? This is the concept I am shooting for with the durability build on my GLHS I was telling you about. I am considering using the socketed SMEC and change to the SMEC mod harness on it like you had suggested. I will have to buy another megasquirt for the S/C drag car though. Maybe I would be better off getting a socketed LM and doing the eprom flash stuff? I am trying to keep the GLHS as stock appearing as possible. Looking for a super 60 or TIII or Masi intercooler.
 

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posting pics of adjustable 4.6/5.4 ford crank sensor setup (by BBK)

no it won't fit a 2.2 but it comes close enough someone handy might be able to make a hub that fits it to the center of the pulley by the bolts

I have one for my truck so I tried it against the crank pulley .. bolt spacing is definitely wrong - an entire center for it would have to be made - or something to space it out above the heads of the pulley bolts as they prevent it from sitting flat in the center of the pulley

- something like a thick aluminum washer with a hole for the center bolt and 4 or 5 bolt head reliefs drilled into the backside of it (?)

Something like that would be easy enough to machine. And nice to see the cutouts don't have to have square corners inside to work.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Do you think it's the extreme flow that gives that awesome horsepower at such low boost?
I'm not sure if this question was directed to me but I'll answer.
Flow is key to make power. The classic 300ft lb and 200hp dyno on 2.2/2.5 turbo dodge is because the stock cylinder heads just don't flow. You need flow to make horse power. Make the cylinder head flow, peak power will come after 6000RPM instead of 4000 RPM.


What did it run at the baseline 9 PSI?
My setup has a minimal boost of 13psi, as you can tell from the second graph where boost started at 9psi and creep to 13psi at 7400rpm.

This is the concept I am shooting for with the durability build on my GLHS I was telling you about. I am considering using the socketed SMEC and change to the SMEC mod harness on it like you had suggested. I will have to buy another megasquirt for the S/C drag car though. Maybe I would be better off getting a socketed LM and doing the eprom flash stuff? I am trying to keep the GLHS as stock appearing as possible. Looking for a super 60 or TIII or Masi intercooler.
Distributor and HEP robs power due to inaccurate and inconstant spark timing. You can see this happen when you use a timing gun to time the 2.2/2.5 engine.

If the LM works, leave the wiring and upgrade to 87 TII LM would be my suggestion.
 

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If the LM works, leave the wiring and upgrade to 87 TII LM would be my suggestion.
I can't believe that even in these they didn't bring the MAP out into the engine compartment. What other differences are there in that upgrade?


I saw your post about the Ed Peters comparison today. The head I have was ported using an Ed Peters head as an example. I have heard bad things about that style of porting though. That it doesn't flow much better. My head has +1s as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
What other differences are there in that upgrade?
Simple 1 chip upgrade in the 87 LM vs 2 chips in the 86 LM.

I have heard bad things about that style of porting though. That it doesn't flow much better.
You did see my 350whp dyno, right? Good head that can flow mean peak HP is in the later RPM.
 

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Your head porting is done in the Ed Peters style?


So the old EPROMS were two seperate chips?

How much power do you think the gain is, just simply running distributorless ignition versus the HEP setup?
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Your head porting is done in the Ed Peters style?
This is my head.


So the old EPROMS were two seperate chips?
Read it for yourself, I never used 86 or older stuff. Not sure if I ever had one open.

1986 Turbo I Logic Module - MiniMopar Resources
The 1987 T1 Logic Module - MiniMopar Resources

How much power do you think the gain is, just simply running distributorless ignition versus the HEP setup?
Can't tell you power numbers, between the dynos, different intercooler, different turbo, different fuel, different muffler were used. What I can tell you is what timing I used.

Timing on the 290whp on E85, on LM and HEP.


Timing on 350whp on E54, on Microsquirt and 36-1 wheel.
 

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Looks like you finally solved your 300WHP dilemma!

Great work and glad you stuck with it and were able to realize how possible it is to make good power from this platform :)
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Looks like you finally solved your 300WHP dilemma!

Great work and glad you stuck with it and were able to realize how possible it is to make good power from this platform :)
Thanks.

I think I'm done increasing HP, unless I can do it without increasing torque.

Torque breaks stuff, my stuff isn't breaking and I'd like to keep it that way.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
my stuff isn't breaking and I'd like to keep it that way.

"LIKE"
Broke an axle trying to launch it with drag radials and 4000rpm. Didn't get a pass. :surprise:




Upped the boost and took it to DynoJet ($50 per 3 runs vs $250 / hr at Dyno Dynamics). 367whp, boost spiked over 29psi and come back around 26psi



More importantly, I can get a nice flat torque curve with 7psi boost that creep to 13psi and make 248whp at 12.5psi. Good for 1st and 2nd gear pull on the street.

 
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