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I'm not up on the progress of this thread but,
here's a couple pics of an interesting adj. cam gear one of the Neon guys made for the 2.4.
I thought maybe it might help with your design?





I'm not really a V6 guy but, it looks to me that this idea could be used for the 2.2/2.5 gear too. :brows:

Asa, this idea could be incorporated into the 4cly gear, no? :shrug:
 

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Discussion Starter #42
I'm not up on the progress of this thread but,
here's a couple pics of an interesting adj. cam gear one of the Neon guys made for the 2.4.
I thought maybe it might help with your design?





I'm not really a V6 guy but, it looks to me that this idea could be used for the 2.2/2.5 gear too. :brows:

Asa, this idea could be incorporated into the 4cly gear, no? :shrug:
hmm very interesting. yes this could definitely be a possibility.

the 2.2/2.5 have a pretty nice adjustable gear available from fidanza..for i think around $100. the pulley on that engine is pretty solid with no spokes, it would require some machining to make an adapter like this. im not sure if it would be a better choice than the fidanza.
 

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hmm very interesting. yes this could definitely be a possibility.

the 2.2/2.5 have a pretty nice adjustable gear available from fidanza..for i think around $100. the pulley on that engine is pretty solid with no spokes, it would require some machining to make an adapter like this. im not sure if it would be a better choice than the fidanza.
Yeah, just a "for what it's worth" kind of thing I figured to post in case it might help. :thumb:
 

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No problem, glad I could help out a fellow fwd dodge enthusiast. Especially if it's for something as cool as this. CNC machining is awesome,and with the skill of a knowlegdeable programmer and designer such as yourself amazing things can be created; With precision and in no time at all! A feat only accomplished in dreams 30-years ago. Someday a CNC mill will be a staple in garages everywhere. I wish more peope all over the world had that sort of "I can build this" mentality. It's how great inventions get invented.
End of rant.

good luck with this and all your other projects!

Joe
 

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Discussion Starter #47
No problem, glad I could help out a fellow fwd dodge enthusiast. Especially if it's for something as cool as this. CNC machining is awesome,and with the skill of a knowlegdeable programmer and designer such as yourself amazing things can be created; With precision and in no time at all! A feat only accomplished in dreams 30-years ago. Someday a CNC mill will be a staple in garages everywhere. I wish more peope all over the world had that sort of "I can build this" mentality. It's how great inventions get invented.
End of rant.

good luck with this and all your other projects!

Joe
awesome! thanks again!

if anyone would like to help with this project, something im trying to find on the internet are precise geometry for the pulley teeth.

as far as i can tell, the profile is "modified curvilinear (III)" which was a style invented in the 70's/80's by gates. at least thats the profile for a 2.2/2.5 belt. ill verify its the same for this engine, but i bet it is.

there must be a patent or something somewhere that shows the profile. i dont really want to just eyeball it. its definitely an engineered thing and doesnt appear to just be a simple radius slot. think about the long term stresses the belt undergoes and simultaneously the precision required to keep the valvetrain in sync with the crank. id really like to do it right.

the pulley lightbulb sent will define the major geometry, like the diameters, bore offset, etc..
 

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These patent numbers refer to modified curvilinear tooth profiles. With specific proportions defined. I didn't read through them in their entirety but I think one of these is what you're looking for

4605389 gates rubber
4515577 uniroyal
3924481 goodyear
3756091 uniroyal

3.0l t-belt - Gates T139 - This is the one on my motor right now
 

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Discussion Starter #49
These patent numbers refer to modified curvilinear tooth profiles. With specific proportions defined. I didn't read through them in their entirety but I think one of these is what you're looking for

4605389 gates rubber
4515577 uniroyal
3924481 goodyear
3756091 uniroyal

3.0l t-belt - Gates T139 - This is the one on my motor right now
awesome thanks for the research! ill try to extract what we need from those
 

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Discussion Starter #50
here is a picture of my fidanza adjustable cam gear for my 2.5. it seems to line up perfectly with the stamped gear lightbulb sent me for the 6G72.

looks like this fidanza goes for $92 shipped on ebay

this suggests some possibilities:

making a replacement center section for the fidanza, from scratch, to work with the 6G72

modifying the fidanza center section and/or creating an insert for it to adapt it to the 6G72

 

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Discussion Starter #51
ive been looking through the patents, and i bet i can find the critical profile dimensions we need

it appears our belt is the "powergrip HTD"..which apparently is the original "curvilinear" style..but the gates website describes it as "modified curvilnear" which other documents show as having flats ..

i think a call to gates would be useful, i would think theyd give out the specs for pulleys so people could design pulleys for their belts
 

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Discussion Starter #52
anyone have any idea that absolute earliest that this style cam sprocket and belt was used on our cars? that might help eliminate some patents by date.

i.e. is the same belt used on the 1984 k-car? and if that car was first built in early '83 or something then we can probably eliminate any patents 1983 or later
 

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Discussion Starter #55
i got some emails from them and they are saying they cant release anything

i think some clever strategy is needed here..this pulley and belt design are so old that there just must be some drawing or cad file somewhere on this..someone must have made their own cam gear at some point in the last 30 years and made a drawing

the publicly available generic powergrip HTD pulleys come in a few fixed pitches and i would think there is a good chance they are the right profile..so thats an option too although it would require a little extrapolation

does anyone know the earliest year vehicle the 6G72 or the 2.2/2.5 used this style pulley or belt? that would help in narrowing down a timeframe for patents


and there is someone im talking to on a machining forum that has gone through this, maybe they can help..ill report whatever i find
 

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Unfortunately I was also told that the drawings and measurements are proprietary information by a Mr. Conkling of the Gates Corp.

Apparently there are books printed by both Gates and Uniroyal describing application of their belt drive systems. These were referenced in a patent I found earlier which I can't find now. The wording was something like "...using a belt and pulley drive of the design "HTD II" as described in "Powertrain" by uniroyal or of the design "Powergrip HTD" as described in Gates book 19996-000..."


I would think there has to be a place to get this information. How else would chrysler(or any manufacturer for that matter) have known which profile was best for their specific application?

I found that patent: WO 1997011874 A1
Use the find function in your browser to find the text "Powergrip HTD" its in the middle of other irrelevant info.
 
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