88 daytona 2.5l wont start

4048 Views 44 Replies 6 Participants Last post by NAJ, Feb 16, 2012

waegele

Discussion Starter · Dec 11, 2011

hello, I am looking for some help in getting my daughters car back on the road.
I am unable to get codes run on this but have been searching myself the ole fashion way to see if I can find the source of the problem.

the car cranks fine. I have fuel to my throttle body. * if I run jumpers to my fuel injector I do get gas & it will start. I get no fuel from my injector unless I run power to it with jumper wires (I only keep connected for a few seconds)

using a digital meter I can NOT measure current to my fuel injector, it does detect a change but NOT a good strong 12V signal (just kinda flutters)

this car was running when she bought it. I saw it very hard to start & run cold, once it warmed up it was doing ok, she said it stalled on a few occasions but always restarted..... until now

any help would be greatly appreciated by both of us

1 - 20 of 45 Posts

BoostAddiction

· #2 · Dec 11, 2011

Sending unit or Fuel Injectors might be bad?

waegele

Discussion Starter · #3 · Dec 11, 2011

BoostAddiction said:
Sending unit or Fuel Injectors might be bad?

I can power the single fuel injector & it operates fine. do you know where the power comes from or what may be blocking it?

BoostAddiction

· #4 · Dec 11, 2011

Was this the natural aspirated or aspirated engine?

BoostAddiction

· #5 · Dec 11, 2011

Many times the oil pressure sending unit is a switch that lets the computor turn on the injectors.Check for proper connection of oil sending unit and power to it with the key on.

Do not use a test light because it can fry the injector because I believe they use only 3v and it will draw to many volts and fry the injector.

If not, then you can follow the wires back to where they get power from.

waegele

Discussion Starter · #6 · Dec 11, 2011

BoostAddiction said:
Was this the natural aspirated or aspirated engine?

naturally aspirated, NON turbo ... sry I thought I had this listed but it is only on my profile,Part # MOP-153RLB
Type L4
153 CID
2507 CC
1988 Dodge 153 FWD, non turbo, roller cam, with balance assembly.

waegele

Discussion Starter · #7 · Dec 11, 2011

BoostAddiction said:
Many times the oil pressure sending unit is a switch that lets the computor turn on the injectors.Check for proper connection of oil sending unit and power to it with the key on.

Do not use a test light because it can fry the injector because I believe they use only 3v and it will draw to many volts and fry the injector.

If not, then you can follow the wires back to where they get power from.

to the best of my knowledge the injectors are 12v, most recommendations are to test with a 9 vt battery for no longer than 10 seconds. the injectors are to turn on for apx 1 second when the key is turned on ... this does not happen in my case. darkness is approaching so I must pack up for the day.

BoostAddiction

· #8 · Dec 12, 2011

Another thing to check is your relays. Let me know how it goes.

waegele

Discussion Starter · #9 · Dec 12, 2011

relays? what would you suggest, the ASD relay would stop fuel and spark, this is not the case (engine starts w/ injector powered) I am getting no power to my injector at any time. No 1 second burst for starting and nothing if I start it using an outside fuel source (in my case gumout).

BoostAddiction

· #10 · Dec 12, 2011

I meant fuses in general.

NAJ

· #11 · Dec 12, 2011

You said you could not retrieve fault codes...Is this because the car will not flash the codes or because you do not know how to retrieve them without a scanner?

Power to the injector(s) comes from the ASD Relay which also supplies power to the + coil, fuel pump and heater circuit on the HO2S.
The ASD relay is located on the L/S Fender on 88-90 and the ground side of the relay is computer controlled.
The ASD will be actuated by the controller for 1 second with initial key on to pressurize the fuel rail, it will not be actuated again until the controller see's a crank signal from the Hep.
If the problem is with the ASD Circuit or HEP you will not have fuel or spark.

Post back and I will lead you through diagnostics.

waegele

Discussion Starter · #12 · Dec 12, 2011

thanks NAJ, I have tried to do the codes without the reader but I can not get the check engine light to flash them for me (off on off on off on in 5 sec?) as you can see above I have spark & the fuel pump does cycle when the key is turned on but no power to the injector. from what you have said, The injector wire runs from the ASD relay (possibly its is broke or damaged ?) I have removed the asd relay but did not know how to actually check it ..... the weather is cold & rainy here, hopefully I will be able to get back out there soon. I am hoping I can match colors on the wires & ohm them ... does 1 ground & the other to ASD? thx for your help

waegele

Discussion Starter · #13 · Dec 12, 2011

waegele said:
thanks NAJ, I have tried to do the codes without the reader but I can not get the check engine light to flash them for me (off on off on off on in 5 sec?) as you can see above I have spark & the fuel pump does cycle when the key is turned on but no power to the injector. from what you have said, The injector wire runs from the ASD relay (possibly its is broke or damaged ?) I have removed the asd relay but did not know how to actually check it ..... the weather is cold & rainy here, hopefully I will be able to get back out there soon. I am hoping I can match colors on the wires & ohm them ... does 1 ground & the other to ASD? thx for your help

Hi again everyone, I would 1st like to say thanks to you for trying to help me thru this. 2nd I am hoping I can get some good straight answers on a couple of things. here goes ...
2 wires go to the fuel injector, where do they come from? ASD relay / computer, wire colors or terminal numbers would be great. is there a wiring diagram that could be posted possibly?
or even E-mail me ([email protected]). it there a way to test the relay, is the coil normally powered, what is no/nc & where does it get the signal? also I would like to verify the voltage to the fuel injector & if it should be able to read it with a multi-meter.
thanks so much

waegele

Discussion Starter · #14 · Dec 12, 2011

one last thought, the tach does not operate when the engine is running. could this cause additional issues?

NAJ

· #15 · Dec 12, 2011

Power to the injector comes from the ASD Relay and the other side is ground which is computer controlled.
Power is constant with the engine running/cranking and the controller duty cycles the ground side to control injector pulse width.

The DG/BK wire is the ASD Output wire to the controlled components.
You can manually actuate the ASD Relay to verify if power is present at the ASD powered components, + coil, injector(s), fuel pump, O2 heater circuit.
1)Locate the underhood diagnostic connector.
2)With the key on/engine off ground the DB/YL wire in the Diag Connector.
3)The ASD will be actuated and power(battery voltage) should be present at the ASD powered components.
I would suggest you check them all to be sure, you should hear the fuel pump running if it is operational.

As far as your check engine lamp, does the CEL illuminate with initial key on bulb check?

You said the tach does not work, I assume this was noticed before your no start condition?
The controller gets its RPM info from the HEP and then sends an AC voltage to the instrument cluster.

PM being sent with wiring.

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waegele

Discussion Starter · #16 · Dec 14, 2011

well I tore into it again. I still have no power to my fuel injector. no power from the SMEC so I am guessing I must replace it.

d_snook6

· #17 · Dec 14, 2011

waegele said:
well I tore into it again. I still have no power to my fuel injector. no power from the SMEC so I am guessing I must replace it.

Power does not come from the smec for the fuel injector, as stated before its come from the asd. Unplug the injector, get someone to crank the car over with a test light or volt meter check for battery voltage ie. 12 volts while its cranking.
Smec sends a ground pulse to the other wire to fire the injector, this can not be properly checked with a voltmeter, a computer safe test light or led test light can be used though.

The most common problem with these cars is the hep, but i've also have had the power module go inside the smec (the board with the smaller of the two plug)

NAJ

· #18 · Dec 14, 2011

waegele said:
well I tore into it again. I still have no power to my fuel injector. no power from the SMEC so I am guessing I must replace it.

Did you manually actuate the ASD Relay and check for power at the injector, + coil, fuel pump?

waegele

Discussion Starter · #19 · Dec 15, 2011

ok, had to run out for a while today but spent a bit of time looking at "the terd". a local u pull it had an 89 daytona & I went out to take a look today only to find it had been crushed. it had good seats & the same motor as mine but its gone now

i got in just before dark & had someone crank the engine I used a multi meter to check for 12V at injector, it had none. I know I am getting voltage to my coil & fuel pump as I can make it run using gumout as fuel. I manage to get a used computer both the 14 pin & 60 pin for free, hooked them up and still had the same issues. I hope to be able to take a good serious look at the thing tomorrow. any ideas would be most appreciated. thx to all

NAJ

· #20 · Dec 15, 2011

If you have power to the fuel pump and coil but not the injector the issue is not with the controller, ASD relay, HEP or injector.
Your issue is an open wire from the ASD Relay to the injector.
The output from the ASD Relay is the DG/BK wire and the wiring is spliced in the harness where it splits and runs to the different components.
Your wiring issue is somewhere between the splice and injector.

Be sure the wire is not broken from the terminal in the injector connector.

Use an ohmmeter to verify the circuit is open from the ASD to injector.

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