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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Quick background for those who may not know.

I bought an 89 CSX that sat for the past 9 years in a garage. I had it towed to my house and over the past three months I have ben knocking out the much needed maintenance to get it road worth and an initial shake down. Big items I replaced were the fuel tank, sending unit, fuel pump, filter, injector o-rings, timing belt, both cv axles, and water pump. Car idles fine (about 1,100 rpms which compared to my 87 GLHS is high). Replaced engine oil/filter and trans fluid as well. I thought I might have a vacuum leak so bought a EVAP smoke machine and it only showed smoke from one of the solenoid vents (rear most on passenger side panel not strut tower).

So to the drive. car drives/cruises ok. There is a slight pull to the right while accelerating which my GLHS did and control arms and struts fixed that. no biggie. Now to the not so good.....

There is a clatter/rattle from the trans axle around 2,500 rpms while driving and when in neutral with the foot off the clutch. Speaking with a TD trans guy he said it sounds like input shaft bearing. Another shop mentioned throw out bearing. I think I side with input shaft bearing as it does it while driving and clutch fully engage.

While driving responsibly (just light acceleration) the car drive fine, but as soo as I give it just a little gas, the boost gauge pegs and the turbo sounds like a dang jet engine spooling up! Bad part is the car does not feel like it just got hit with 15lbs of boost. As soon as I see the needle peg I let off and all is fine. Well not believing the boost gauge I floored it and the jet engine spooled up and at about 3,500 rpms BAM, falls right on its face, misfires and check engine light comes on. Push clutch in and now the car idles at 2k rpms but otherswise seems fine. I am on my way home and sitting at a traffic light and the car starts to run REALLY rough and stalls. Took about 10 seconds of cranking before it would fire again and drove the rest of the way home (Maybe 3/4 of a mile).

Once home I pulled the codes and in order 12 (Yes I had a the battery disconnected), 67, 13, 55 (end). TO me it was weird that 13 came after 67, ut hey, that is what it showed me. I believe 67 was overboots and 13 has to do with map sensor.

I am wondering if possibly the smoke machine may have put oil into the map sensor causing issues?

At idle the dash gauge only reads 15" of idle and like I said, I could not find any leaks with the smoke machine. Tomorrow I plan to take my shop air compressor and hook it to the boost gauge line and in small incriments see what the gauge says comared the to compressor. I also have an aftermarket vac/boost gauge I plan to slave in and see what that says compared to the dash gauge. I also plan to hook my hand vac pump up to the VNT canister and see if the vanes are actuating or stuck in full open or closed position. Not sure if that hand pump will actuate it, but shall see.

So anyone have any suggestions for those coeds? Also with the VNT is it normal to sound like a dang jet engine spooling up? I mean it is LOUD spooling up compared to the GLHS. Loud as in the spooling noise, not like the turbo is scraping the housing or anything. I have verified all intake hoses are hooked up and not torn (Had to capp them off at the air box for the smoke machine so I know from the turbo inlet through the turbo and intercooler has no leaks)

Thanks all!
 

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"There is a clatter/rattle from the trans axle around 2,500 rpms while driving and when in neutral with the foot off the clutch. Speaking with a TD trans guy he said it sounds like input shaft bearing. Another shop mentioned throw out bearing. I think I side with input shaft bearing as it does it while driving and clutch fully engage."

That noise is normal at idle with the clutch pedal released, been present on my car for 32 years.
Some folks say that a higher viscosity oil (factory is 5W-30) in the transaxle alleviates this problem, you just need to be careful, if you live in a cold climate the higher viscosity may make shifting more difficult when it is cold out.
The rattle at 2500 rpms is not normal, be sure it is not something else that is creating the 2500 RPM rattle.

Code 67 is VNT "A" Side Failure.
Whatever is causing this code is the reason for the turbo sounding like it does and acting the way it does.
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Be absolutely sure all vacuum lines are routed correctly, and no hoses are collapsed, not hard to get it wrong on a VNT.
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Code 13 is the Map Sensor Pneumatic Circuit.
Either Vacuum did not change from crank to start or vacuum/pressure was not equal to throttle position.
If you want to check your MAP calibration...
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks Jan. I also dug up an old.thread where you were walking someone through checking out the same issue I am seeing, so have plenty to go by.

As I mentioned it seemed fine until I floored it and then all the codes and issues happened. Will checkap.voltage to confirm operation.

As for the clatter, deffinately trans related and not engine. With car parked and in neutral, if standing in front of car you can rev the engine and hear the clatter from the bell housing area. Car shifts fine. I am thinking input shaft bearings and if that's the car I will just pull the 555 and ship it out for a refresh.

Smoke test showed no smoke except from rear most solenoid on fender vent (not strut tower). Not sure if that solenoid is normally open or closed but may swap it with one of the other solenoid and see what's different.
 

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With the Engine idling, and the trans rattling in neutral, very gently press on the clutch pedal.

If the noise goes away, that's a good indication the trans fluid is too thin.

Thanks
Randy
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
With the Engine idling, and the trans rattling in neutral, very gently press on the clutch pedal.

If the noise goes away, that's a good indication the trans fluid is too thin.

Thanks
Randy
Thanks Randy, but I changed the fluid and jacked drivers side high to add an extra 1/4 quart of fluid. And since i am in FL i also used straight 40 weight conventional oil.
 

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Thanks Jan. I also dug up an old thread where you were walking someone through checking out the same issue I am seeing, so have plenty to go by.

As I mentioned it seemed fine until I floored it and then all the codes and issues happened. Will check map voltage to confirm operation.

As for the clatter, definitely trans related and not engine. With car parked and in neutral, if standing in front of car you can rev the engine and hear the clatter from the bell housing area. Car shifts fine. I am thinking input shaft bearings and if that's the car I will just pull the 555 and ship it out for a refresh.

Smoke test showed no smoke except from rear most solenoid on fender vent (not strut tower). Not sure if that solenoid is normally open or closed but may swap it with one of the other solenoid and see what's different.
I would clear the codes, go for a ride and see if any return, if the Code 67 returns, that is where you should start.
 

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Right on, I'm happy to hear it shifts nice with # 40!!

Honestly, I don't know anything about VNT's but am interested.

I had overboosting issues on a some Mitsu's with free flowing exhaust.

I placed a restriction at the tail pipe to keep it from over boosting.

Various restrictor sizes varied the amount of boost delivered by the turbo.

The correct size restricter kept boost at 12 psi was my exp[experience.

Might be a way to control overboosting while diagnosing your issue.

Naturally I defer to Jan for actual proper diagnosing !!

Thanks
Randy




Shifts perfect. A TON better than my 525
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Btw my exhaust is mostly stock. Previous owner said cat had to be replaced and there is a cat installed. I need to check and see if a stock one or after market.
 

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On a VNT it is the muffler that provides the exhaust backpressure needed to prevent overspooling/overboosting of the turbo.
Unfortunately nobody makes the proper replacement muffler.
Without exhaust backpressure you will overboost, this is the likely result of prolonged overboost shutdown.
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
It has what I assume is the stock muffler as that is what the original said it was. Its just a single tip angled down and out towards drivers rear of rear bumper
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I just experimented with a couple of exhaust reducers to find my sweet spot.

Very inexpensive and easy to install, remove or change.

Thanks
Randy




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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
Just got back from clearing the coeds and hooking 12V to all three solenoids and they checked good (good click but still need to perform full checks). Also verified operation with blowing air thought them. Put it all back together and no need to take it for a drive to ops check the system as I can rev the engine in the driveway and it will peg the boost gauge, starts sputtering/misfiring again and stalls. Takes about 10 seconds of cranking to start back up. No check engine light this time, but assume that is only because I had just cleared the codes and needs time to learn. Still need to do a comprehensive and systematic inspection of all items to include the MAP. Hopefully this weekend.

I did hear what to me sounded like the turbo was surging. I am going to guess there is an issue with the vanes and will dig into that as well (added to the list from above).
 

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Jan,

I also have a newly purchased (but ignorant on how to use) OTC 4000e scanner that I can use if that will help me at all?
The scanner will definitely help, you can view all sensor values, run actuator tests and perform Chryslers flow chart diagnostics.

I do not remember, did you check other basics such as Fuel Pressure, Cam/Ignition Timing, Vacuum Line Routing?
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
The scanner will definitely help, you can view all sensor values, run actuator tests and perform Chryslers flow chart diagnostics.

I do not remember, did you check other basics such as Fuel Pressure, Cam/Ignition Timing, Vacuum Line Routing?
New timing belt so know its spot on, new walboror 255, new filter, replaced injector o-ring, distributor cap and rotor, new plugs and wires. I ordered new nylon tubing and silicone hoses for for the vacuum lines. I downloaded several charts on line routing so will tear it apart one by one and replace the lines. Smoke machine indicated no leaks except middle solenoid vent. Not sure if that is a normally open valve or not. Also have not verified base timing yet but that is on my list to do.

I am hoping today to start the car and pull the vacuum line off the VNT actuator can and see if the vanes move. I also want to put a hand operate vacuum to the can and make sure it holds. My car only sees 16" vacuumed at idle and I have verified boost/vac gauge accuracy. From everything I have read online it sounds like my vanes stay closed for some reason, either control issues or stuck.

This weekend I hope to go through a systematic troubleshooting vs just kind of jumping around looking for something obvious.

Gota love these cars when you try to make them roadworthy after sitting 9 years! Lol


Have a Happy Thanksgiving.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
So I spent some time on the car in between putting Christmas lights up. I found I had the vacuum lines to the actuator can reversed. Straightened that up and now have 20" vacuum indicated on the boost/vac gauge.

Took it for a drive and still sounds like a dang jet engine spooling up and pegs the boos gauge. Hit overboots and check engine light came on. Brought it back home. Fault 67 (overboots) was the only fault.

I read where someone said if I disconnect the large line off the actuator can I while engine is idling, I should see the arm move. I did that and it might have move 1/4". Seems too small a movement to me (possibly stuck vanes?).

Pretty much verified all vacuum lines are routed correctly and now just need to pull all the solenoids and with air hooked up in place of vacuum, apply 12V to the solenoids, and verify they are all work correctly.

Other than that I may put it up on ramps and see if I can disconnect the actuator arm from the VNT and see if I can move the vanes by hand.

Also it seems that my valve cover is allowing oil to leak into the valley between the head and intake manifold and drip onto the passenger side of the exhaust manifold. I believe 89 was a one piece seal?
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Put my OTC 400e scanner on the car and checked all three solenoids. 2&3 clicked and while testing the solenoids, I hooked up a hose to each respective solenoid. I then tried to blow through the solenoid while it cycled. Both 2&3 checked good and would cycle the airflow with the solenoid actuation.

Solenoid #1 on the strut tower clicked, but regardless of which end I hooked my hose to, I could not blow through this solenoid while it clicked. Assuming this solenoid is bad and now trying to locate one.
 

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I can send you the diagnostics for all three VNT solenoids to see where they lead, since you have a scanner it will be easier.
I can do this tomorrow.

VNT Solenoids 2/3 are known as "Universal Vacuum Solenoids" and are still available from Chrysler.
Part # 5234217


The part # for the VNT 1 Solenoid is 5234639 and has long been discontinued.
 
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