The rpm's will actually go low enough that it will stall when coming to a stop when you forget the switch on? Just asking because the tranny shifts out of 3rd gear around 10 mph when coming to a stop. Even if you had your switch on and the solenoid was energized, the converter clutch would only engage when the tranny's in 3rd gear. So the converter clutch should disengage around 10mph if you forget the switch on. I didn't think the rpms would be that low at 10 mph to stall the engine.22dodge said:904? that's a RWD trans. if you have a lockup 413 and do not plug in the lockup sol you do not have lockup convertor. however if you would like to pickup a couple miles to the gallon put in a manual lockup switch on your dash. I did this with a lebaron GTS. gained 2-3 mpg having lockup function.. just have to remember to turn off when comming to a stop... car dies when you forget.
I know how the converter clutch comes on and I understand what your saying on how the function of it has nothing to do mechanically with the gears, but it does have something to do with them *hydraulically*. There's hydraulics in the valve body that will not allow the clutch to engage in the other gears. The valve body was designed so the clutch could only engage in third gear, whether the solenoid was on or off. If the converter clutch is on in other gears, there's a valve body malfunction (either a cross leak, or a sticking switch valve).turbovanman said:Yes, it has nothing to do with the gears, the TC is locked on like a clutch, its solid-no slipping so when you come to a stop, its just like a 5spd car if you don't depress the clutch pedal!
Your correct to a point. It won't engage till 3rd but it will stay on once its activated. The solenoid is electric and when its on, its on!Torqueflite said:I know how the converter clutch comes on and I understand what your saying on how the function of it has nothing to do mechanically with the gears, but it does have something to do with them *hydraulically*. There's hydraulics in the valve body that will not allow the clutch to engage in the other gears. The valve body was designed so the clutch could only engage in third gear, whether the solenoid was on or off. If the converter clutch is on in other gears, there's a valve body malfunction (either a cross leak, or a sticking switch valve).
Chad Kilback (manual valve body with trans-brake coming soon)
Calgary, Alberta SDAC
88 Daytona Shelby "Zedd"
12.43 @ 111 quickest time
12.6 @ 113.00 fastest time
87 New Yorker "Norker Zedd" 2.5L TII 14.6 @ 93
This isn't a true statement. Just because the solenoid is on doesn't mean the converter clutch is on. The solenoid *does not* directly control the converter clutch. The solenoid controls the switch valve, and the switch valve controls the oil flow to the converter to engage or disengage the converter clutch. But the switch valve cannot turn on unless the tranny's in 3rd gear. When the tranny's in 3rd gear, a hydraulic "signal" is sent to the switch valve. To engage the converter clutch, the solenoid must be on, *and* this "signal" must be present at the switch valve. Both these things must be happening for the clutch to come on. If one or the other isn't there, the clutch won't come on. If the clutch is on and the 3rd gear signal disappears (from the tranny downshifting out of 3rd), or the solenoid turns off, the clutch will disengage. If you look at the flowcharts and understand them, you will see this. I gave a general statement on how the solenoid controls the converter clutch. It's a bit more technical than that.turbovanman said:Your correct to a point. It won't engage till 3rd but it will stay on once its activated. The solenoid is electric and when its on, its on!
Yep, see that all the time. They tell you the story how it stalls when hot coming to a stop. Other shops can't figure it out, you know exactly what it is and tell them you will call them in an hour or so,22dodge said:FACT I had a lebaron GTS that I installed a lockup trans. there was no provision in the wire harness for the lockup so I installed my own lockup circuit. By flipping the switch, I could lockup in 1st, 2nd and 3rd.
When I stepped down enought to kick-down, the torque still wouldn't unlock (sure was sluggish acceleration with the torque locked) if I forgot to shut off the switch when stopping, it was exactly like not having the clutch pushed in on a manual trans when stopping.... the engine would stall.
Another non-chyrsler system.... the GM 3 speed trans in the FWD cars is know for having a lockup sol problem. very similar hydraulics as the 413... when driving and comming to a stop, the lockup would not release and the engine will stall. restart the car and try putting into gear and the car would immediately die. you would have to leave the car off for a couple minutes before the pressure would bleed off before you could get going.... you see a lot of these transmissions with the lockup sol unplugged.
If you could lock it up in all gears, then you had a cross leak in the valve body. In order for the switch valve to move (to turn on the converter clutch) pressure is fed to a reaction area on the switch valve. This pressure *only comes from the 2-3 shift valve when it's on* (when the tranny's in 3rd gear. It's the same oil that goes to the front clutch). The pressure coming from the open 2-3 shift valve passes through a tiny orifice in the separator plate (about .030") and tries to push on the reaction area of the switch valve to open it. But when the fluid passes through the tiny orifice, the pressure drops to almost zero, because the solenoid vents away this pressure (a pressure drop is created across the orifice). The solenoid does nothing more than creates a leak (when the solenoid's off) to the pressure trying to open the switch valve. When the solenoid turns on, it seals up the leak, and the fluid passing through the tiny orifice can now build up pressure, and cause the switch valve to move, which turns on the converter clutch.22dodge said:FACT I had a lebaron GTS that I installed a lockup trans. there was no provision in the wire harness for the lockup so I installed my own lockup circuit. By flipping the switch, I could lockup in 1st, 2nd and 3rd.
When I stepped down enought to kick-down, the torque still wouldn't unlock (sure was sluggish acceleration with the torque locked) if I forgot to shut off the switch when stopping, it was exactly like not having the clutch pushed in on a manual trans when stopping.... the engine would stall.
Another non-chyrsler system.... the GM 3 speed trans in the FWD cars is know for having a lockup sol problem. very similar hydraulics as the 413... when driving and comming to a stop, the lockup would not release and the engine will stall. restart the car and try putting into gear and the car would immediately die. you would have to leave the car off for a couple minutes before the pressure would bleed off before you could get going.... you see a lot of these transmissions with the lockup sol unplugged.
ya do have a good point there22dodge said:if it aint broke don't mess with it.
