[th3dop3man]

so ive seen on tv and on the net this type of turbo setup and ppl say it will be crap b/c of the location of the turbo they actually mount the turbo under the car around the muffler then run all intake piping also under the car then into an intercooler!! so with all that pipe wouldnt u get turbo lag?? but how bad could it really be?? this is the website Squires Turbo Systems - Turbocharged Innovation! you can also find dyno vids on youtube of these systems on all types of cars and trucks !! why i mention this is b/c i think this would be a sweet ass setup for the 3.0L V6 and was considering doing this myself but thought some input would be great on this first!!

 

[Daytona_Shopper]

They are a quality outfit and vendors IMHO. I have an LT1 F-body with a similar (home made as I could afford it) system. 3" pipe back to the turbo, 2.25" pipe up to a 3" in/out FMIC, and 3" pipe to the TB. It dynoed at 500 RWHP and 580 TQ with a 60-1 single turbo @ 14 PSI on a built 383 with 9:1 CR and a GM Hot cam. The lag is not that bad, the drawback at this point is the drop off in power over about 4500. I would think with a larger turbo this could be overcome, but of course then you would have more lag and spool later. From a design standpoint, I'm sure the 2.25" pipe chokes power as well, but these cars don't have any room to do much of anything.

On a 3.0L motor the 2.25" pipe should be plenty.

They have done all the work designing the system and I would have no problem buying from them if I could afford to do so at one time.

 

[Ondonti]

The only reason to do a rear mount is because you dont have room in the engine bay.

3.0's have gobs of room.

STS is 10 minutes from my house. All their shop cars are POS's and horribly slow. I smoked their turbo tacoma with my n/a 3.0 spirit @ the track (Rocky mountain raceway). The only running F body in the entire state of utah is a fake Utah Highway Patrol car that my duster on 5pounds of boost will destroy. Everyone makes fun of that UHP car...including the mechanics who have to keep fixing it.

STS is a POS company. I can go there and make a video talking to their service reps....but last time I talked to them they really had no idea what they were doing. The only guy who knows how to BS about their crap systems is the webmaster who weaves a story that pretends their product is worth a damn.


Considering a 383 can make well over 500hp without a turbo....500hp on 14psi boost is a joke!
Also, Its quite easy to fit a turbo system in the engine bay of an F body. Ive seen F bodies with Two of the large turbo I have (in utah) making 1000hp on 12 pounds of boost

Using the search function will show that this subject has been gone over many times and never positively.....Infact, I dont see anything postive on the net except from people who unfortunately bought one. Domestic guys here in the state of Utah dont use STS products because we all know firsthand how this Utah company makes a horrible product. We raced against their POS twin turbo corvette setup years before it was sold on the market. etc etc etc.

 

[mopar3.0]

383gm peformance motor makes 425 out of the box

 

[th3dop3man]

man i have went into a hardware store that has everything u need but when i asked someone where the allen keys were they were like "um what are they?" so my point is the ppl my be as dumb as nails but they dont make the product!! im pretty sure they dont make theyre own turbos and the piping or intercooler B/C they are morons, they had some computer tell them what to do of course!! but when i look at system it is half decent b/c it eliminates all that extra heat from ur engine and will run everything way cooler!! dont u get .5 hp for ever degree of heat removed from the air with all that pipe and and intercooler ur intake temp will probably almost the same as without a turbo sure LAG but theyre is no substitute for a bigger turbo and more boost!!!! oh and BTW ondonti congrats on beating a 4x4 offroad truck with like 30" tires on it!!! is this the tacoma ?? Squires Turbo Systems - Tacoma Sound and Video

 

[Ondonti]

lol considering you have never seen the people who work at STS, raced their cars...

Nobody said the turbochargers they use are garbage. They buy those.

Its all the parts they make, the whole system that is garbage. STS is garbage. Garrett turbochargers are great!!!

Or own a 383 that should make 500hp without a turbo.

Considering a 60-1 turbo isnt laggy on most 2.0L 4 cylinders, it just makes me laugh that its laggy on a 6 liter v8......and then the moment it spools, it runs out of breath because the turbo is meant for a 2 liter motor. Its just comical.

 

[impuresoul2k3]

I didn't realize that STS was an acronym....

 

[bansheenut420]

Yeah, I have heard of them. Worhless POS's is what they are. I have seen a toyota tacoma that couldnt even make boost. It was sad. LMFAO

 

[bansheenut420]

They are a quality outfit and vendors IMHO. I have an LT1 F-body with a similar (home made as I could afford it) system. 3" pipe back to the turbo, 2.25" pipe up to a 3" in/out FMIC, and 3" pipe to the TB. It dynoed at 500 RWHP and 580 TQ with a 60-1 single turbo @ 14 PSI on a built 383 with 9:1 CR and a GM Hot cam. The lag is not that bad, the drawback at this point is the drop off in power over about 4500. I would think with a larger turbo this could be overcome, but of course then you would have more lag and spool later. From a design standpoint, I'm sure the 2.25" pipe chokes power as well, but these cars don't have any room to do much of anything.

On a 3.0L motor the 2.25" pipe should be plenty.

They have done all the work designing the system and I would have no problem buying from them if I could afford to do so at one time.

500hp on a 383 on 14psi :lmao: Those dont have to much of a problem doing that n/a. Way to go sts!!! and the power drops at 4500rpm? Sonds like a good setup.

 

[th3dop3man]

ok then STS is a POS company and product!! but you could do this your self with ur own turbo say a GARRET or twin mitsu's and piping think of how much money you would save and how much easier it is than custom fab. a whole new intake and exhaust system when u could just port the shit out of the enigne and a big ass exhaust!! im only talking about like 10psi on a stock V6 engine not no 500hp 383ci !! seeing as it is almost impossible to find a TURBO motor for a 92 daytona in canada as u all know the #'s of turbo's built in 92-93 !! my other OPTION is puttin a 88 2.2L T1 in a 92 and rewire and re-pin the harness not so easy but it can be done!! so what would you do for TURBO?? that is my question???

 

[reliantwagon]

haha ... you dont need to re wire/repin stuff... i dont think... i hope not anyway... cuz ima put a pre 87 2.2 into my 2.5 91 daytona and i think it will bolt in there fine

 

[Daytona_Shopper]

I never realized there were so many reading challenged people on this board. I was trying to answer the original post with some information I had, which happened to be another car I owned. I didn't realize this was a bashing thread, so as with many things in life, every action has an equal but opposite reaction.

As for the air dyno numbers quoted, re-read my post. My car dynoed 500 rwhp and 580 rwtq. For those in Salt Lake & Seattle, Newfoundland, and Here, that means rear wheel power with the car on a dyno as it is actually operated with all accessories. Also, my system is not an STS, it is a home made rearmount. Let's see you put two (or even one) turbos/turbo in a 4th gen F-body engine bay and keep the AC and not have to butcher the radiator support! Here in FL even with a Be Cool radiator this car still runs hot in the summer w/o the AC on.

These are not flywheel numbers or air dyno numbers. This was the initial setup tune. With fine tuning undoubtedly it would be more. All the 425 and 500 numbers you all are throwing out are flywheel ratings, usually w/o any accessories.

Back on track, if someone here has experience directly with STS, that is your best source of info on them. The vendors I was dealing with when I built the F-body a few years ago always took time to answer my questions and seemed decent to me. As with any company, what was true then may not be the case now.

 

[th3dop3man]

ya i was only using that system as a example not using their system waste of money i would be like u and build my own!! i was just wondering if this would be an ideal setup for the V6 without hacking ur car apart and get better performance with little cost!!

 

[th3dop3man]

haha ... you dont need to re wire/repin stuff... i dont think... i hope not anyway... cuz ima put a pre 87 2.2 into my 2.5 91 daytona and i think it will bolt in there fine

the difference is that the comps are different 1 is an SBEC and the other a SMEC so other electronics are located in another spot under the dash in the SMEC and ive been wondering what exactly they do and if i need them !! so what u need to do is find out what kind of comps u really have!! before u start rippin it apart!!

 

[ZachT]

i dont exactly like the system, but you have to admit it a pretty sneaky setup. cant see much difference under the hood or nothing. i knew a guy with a sts kit on his car, he said it really moves @ 6psi, but its an LS1, so i dont know what it added. i have a popular hot rodding magazine, this guy had a SLEEPER. not sts, but his own kit he made, i think he had an 400+ci ford in an old fairlane or something, but 2 huge turbos under the axle, he even had dog dish hubcaps. RAN 9's!!!!!

idk if i ever got an fbody again, or if i got a mustang, you'd know the kit im getting.....

HP Performance, Mustang Turbo Kits, Mustang Twin Turbo Kits, Corvette Turbo Kits, Corvette Twin Turbo Kits, C5 Turbo Kits, Z06 Turbo Kits, C6 Turbo Kits, C4 Turbo Kits, Acura NSX Turbo Kits, Grand Am Turbo Kits, Camaro Turbo Kits, Firebird Turbo Kits

that website makes me want to get a FOX BODY!!!!!
then again the omni glh is fun

 

[Daytona_Shopper]

I chose the F-body rearmount solely due to not having enough room under the hood plus wanting to keep my AC and PS. My latest turbo project is a BMW with a Gen 3 GM V8, and I was able to mount the turbo up front off the passenger head. As has been mentioned above, room is probaly not a problem with a V6 Daytona, so you would be better off with a front mount unit.

 

[bansheenut420]

I never realized there were so many reading challenged people on this board. I was trying to answer the original post with some information I had, which happened to be another car I owned. I didn't realize this was a bashing thread, so as with many things in life, every action has an equal but opposite reaction.

As for the air dyno numbers quoted, re-read my post. My car dynoed 500 rwhp and 580 rwtq. For those in Salt Lake & Seattle, Newfoundland, and Here, that means rear wheel power with the car on a dyno as it is actually operated with all accessories. Also, my system is not an STS, it is a home made rearmount. Let's see you put two (or even one) turbos/turbo in a 4th gen F-body engine bay and keep the AC and not have to butcher the radiator support! Here in FL even with a Be Cool radiator this car still runs hot in the summer w/o the AC on.

These are not flywheel numbers or air dyno numbers. This was the initial setup tune. With fine tuning undoubtedly it would be more. All the 425 and 500 numbers you all are throwing out are flywheel ratings, usually w/o any accessories.

Back on track, if someone here has experience directly with STS, that is your best source of info on them. The vendors I was dealing with when I built the F-body a few years ago always took time to answer my questions and seemed decent to me. As with any company, what was true then may not be the case now.

I was talking about whp. Whats the bother talking about chp? Give me some time, I will find you dyno sheets, not of my car. But they will be in this mythical Wheel HP you speak of. I dont know anyone, besides car makers, that talk in crank hp. lol
And its not so much I think sts is a crap company. They must be a good company for getting their product out there. I just think its a stupid design. Turbos like heat. That Tacoma that we were talking about couldnt make more than 4psi. lol It was sad seeing a n/a 3.0 grandmas car whoop it. Ok, so not really sad, more funny. In my opinion, and everyone has there own. Its not a bash. If your going to put a turbo on a car, do it right. And putting it at the other end of the car is not the right way, in my opinion. I think it makes the spool slower, and you said it yourself the power falls off after 4500. Thats like usable powerband there. So, you have boost for what like a whole 1500 rpm?
See my example below.....

i dont exactly like the system, but you have to admit it a pretty sneaky setup. cant see much difference under the hood or nothing. i knew a guy with a sts kit on his car, he said it really moves @ 6psi, but its an LS1, so i dont know what it added. i have a popular hot rodding magazine, this guy had a SLEEPER. not sts, but his own kit he made, i think he had an 400+ci ford in an old fairlane or something, but 2 huge turbos under the axle, he even had dog dish hubcaps. RAN 9's!!!!!

idk if i ever got an fbody again, or if i got a mustang, you'd know the kit im getting.....

HP Performance, Mustang Turbo Kits, Mustang Twin Turbo Kits, Corvette Turbo Kits, Corvette Twin Turbo Kits, C5 Turbo Kits, Z06 Turbo Kits, C6 Turbo Kits, C4 Turbo Kits, Acura NSX Turbo Kits, Grand Am Turbo Kits, Camaro Turbo Kits, Firebird Turbo Kits

that website makes me want to get a FOX BODY!!!!!
then again the omni glh is fun

Now THAT is a real kit. My buddy is getting one for his mach. Do it right, and the numbers look so much better!

And that is a slick install. and 780 WHEEL Hp out of a 04 cobra, running 16 psi. Only 2 psi more out of a good kit, and how much more power? And on pump gas to boot. :thumb:

Or, for the whole fit argument....

And look at that, 780HP to the wheels on 13 psi.

My replys were never bashes, just my .02 that if your going to spend money, do it right.

 

[ZachT]

yeah, no doubt, if you gonna get a kit, get a KIT. the hp performance guys have it down to a science, hell you can get a kit for around 5000 bucks, comes with injectors, fuel pump, necessary hardware, everything.

im not an advertiser, but if i was going to turbo a LS1, LT1, 4.6 or 5.0. thats the way to go.

and if you look around on that site, doesnt look as tho they ran out of room under the hood.

i hear people bitch all the time about working on LT1's and LS1's. then buy an old monte carlo or something. i used to own an LT1 TA, fun car, and yes a pain to work on, theres only as much room as you make.

 

[Daytona_Shopper]

Thanks for the info regarding the other installs. Sorry for the bashing impression, but that was what I was gleaning from the prior replies. I replied to offer info and it seems like every other post had something bad to say about my setup. I agree the rear mount is not ideal for max power, but it was right for what I use it for and I'm happy with it.

On the Mustang, I see the whole front end is off, how much work (cutting & modifying) is involved here and what does it look like when it is together? I know these cars are less costly and easier to add a front mount to vs. the GM F-car. I used a Fox body turbo header as the template for my LSx single turbo install on the BMW (the port spacing is nearly identical to the LSx heads), and easily modified their crossover pipe to work with my motor. The hot pipe setups for these are far less costly than the ones for the GMs for some reason. Here are a couple of pics of the test fit of my Garrett turbo to the BMW:

The LSx motors seem to respond much better to forced induction than the prior models. In the Will Handzell book about High Performance mods to the LSx motors, a place called Wheel to Wheel made a huge amount of (flywheel) power (like 600 HP) on a 4.8L truck motor at only 8 PSI. The only mods were 42# injectors and increased fuel pressure.

The GM car depicted has an LSx motor in it. Looks like a good install in that I see an AC accumulator and PS reservoir. Looks like a decent amount of inner fender area cutting to put the turbo where it is. Minimal cutting for the upper radiator deflector and relocation of the battery. I checked the sourced website & see while they make a twin turbo setup for the LTx kit for the Impala, they do not offer anything for the LTx F-body.

As far as spending the money, with the turbo, pipes, wastegate, FMIC, EBC, etc. I probably have (had) around $2K in it, paid for as I could afford it. Those kits start @ $5K, more than I can afford in a lump sum.

I love the 4th gen F-body styling and performance, but find it funny that the same engine and transmission fits into a 20 year older Datsun 280Z much better than the car it was "designed" for:
1995 Trans Am:

1975 280Z w/ original motor from above TA:

 

[Ondonti]

The problem here is thedopeman's understanding of what is wrong.

STS doesnt do a bad job......the thing they're trying to do just doesnt work very well. No matter how hard they try, it will always work poorly. Its the fact that they sell incredibly expensive rearmount turbo setups that dont work well and rip people off.

Their TT corvette setup was ditched by the test car owner because it was garbage. It raced plenty of the domestic people here and it was just a freakin joke! of a car.



You wont save money rear mounting a turbo in a 3.0.
If you think its expensive to build your own turbo manifold..that is your mistake.

The expensive part of turbocharging is fuel control and purchasing parts that you cant build yourself. Things that you need no matter where you put the turbo.
If someone cant understand that then there is no point talking about the problems with rear mounting a turbo.

3.0's all have huge engine bays, even P bodies. Rear mounted turbos are meant for easy install and with a little thinking, you can almost always find a way to fit a turbo in a better location. And you wont save a penny rear mounting.