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Discussion Starter #1
With Dodge 2.2/2.5 Turbo 4's, I've read that automatics and 5 speeds are very nearly equal in the 1/4 mile.

I'd like to find out what the best transmission is for a 3.0 V-6 buildup. Not turbos, and probably not nitrous either, but all the reasonably priced N/A modifications - injectors, my own head porting, the best intake and throttle body choices, etc.

It'd be for high performance street use, but with some street racing and 1/4 mile runs also.

5 speed? Automatic?
 

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I believe it's the a670 or something that comes in mini's that bolts up to the 3.0, it's a 3spd but it's solid to something like 250-275hp or more I believe. I'm sure there's loads of info available, I just don't have any links.
 

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if you are not going with forced induction, then I'm guessing that you want to put as much power to the wheels as possible. With that said, the parasitic losses of an auto transmission is far greater than that of a 5 speed manual transmission. All you need to do is brush up on how to increase your shifting effectiveness and speed. A good dirver can be almost as fast as an automatic.

However, on the flip side of the coin, would you be needing a more consistant run every time? If so, then an automatic is the ticket. I've seen that automatics will give you the most consistancies during the entire night, because it removes most of the possibility of driver error.

You can't go wrong with either. But each has it ups and it's downs.

Wink
 

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ok hows this my a670 aclaim runs a 16.7 last time i went to the track
and this guy i know woth the a604 with the same car/mods ram a 16.0 and the 5 speed swaped acclaim with the same mods ran a 15.6

my a670 will take alot but not from the line. i take off launch on even my freinds wrx and bog fells like 10...11...12...13....14...15....16...17...25 30...
10-20 sux badly.
if i take off at 25 i can take si's evn pull hard till i shift into second on a 14.4 wrx.

1/4 mile is all take off

on the freewayt i dont shift into 3rd till 95 mph.
the a604 4 speed is very weak. anything will kill it. my advise if you get the a604 get it race built.

the tranny selection is all based on what you want to do with the car.
i am planning a 5 speed swap becouse i plan to autocross and i need the shift control.
my turbo is almost done and i think that the 3 speed i have in will helpp better than a 5 speed turbo becouse of shift lag when you shift the turbo has to respool but on auto the butterfly never closes. constsnt power.

so again it is up to the type of racing you are doing
 

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Should any performance shop be able to race-ready an a604? Or is that just a waste of money and time when I could swap over to an a543 or something.
 

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I wouldn't waste my time or money modifying an A604, it's operated by it's own computer and not very tunable. The A670 is identical to the 413 but with the lockup converter, much more easily modified.
 

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You need to do some research on the tranny shops around you town. An A604 CAN be built to handle a good amount of power(I know of a person that put 400hp through one for a few years). It all depends on how they build it and with what parts. If they do it right with all the good parts, then it'll be good. Just don't auto-x it(I know from experience...trust me!). Mine lasted almost 6-years with me bashing the ever-loving crap out of it every chance I got. It was built for drag racing, but I decided to auto-x with it....that didn't last too long :( Anyways, the point is the A604 CAN be a great tranny if done propperly....but it depends on what you are doing with the car...
 

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the lockup converter isn't the difference. you can get a lockup converter on a 413. the 670 3spd is the same as the 413, but has the mitsu V6 bellhousing. the rest of the trans can be modified along the lines of a regular 413 including valve body tuning and addition of a quaife lsd.
 

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One of my friends here in town is building up a 3.0L in a '90 Shadow. He's using the A543 manual transaxle. You really don't even need to build it up. Just get a good quality clutch kit, some Booger shifter bushings and you're good to go!
 

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Unfortunately the A568 wouldn't work because of the 2.2/2.5 bellhousing. You could probably put A568 internals in an A543 case though.
 

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Nope...A543 is the 3.0 5-speed. You CAN put the A568 internals in it though. My question is: WHY? Other than the fact of being able to say: I've got 568 gears, there's really no true advantage unless you are trying to take advatage of the *slight* gearing difference in 1st and the FD, IF you change it. The large spline trannies got the courser gears that look VERY much like the A568 gears(I've seen both side by side). The only REAL difference is the A568 gears go through a special heat treating process for hardness IIRC. I beleive the REAL reason people want the A568 stuff is the fact they get the 4-pinion diff. Big whoop is all I have to say. Get a Quaife and be done with it(or the OBX if they ever get them). The Neon Quaife bolts right in the A543...

Anyways......
 

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I agree with reaper. I was told by someone*i forget* that a 543 was just a 523 but with a different bell. As for the 604 dont waste your time, they are junk IMO.
 

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Reaper1 said:
Nope...A543 is the 3.0 5-speed. You CAN put the A568 internals in it though. My question is: WHY? Other than the fact of being able to say: I've got 568 gears, there's really no true advantage unless you are trying to take advatage of the *slight* gearing difference in 1st and the FD, IF you change it. The large spline trannies got the courser gears that look VERY much like the A568 gears(I've seen both side by side). The only REAL difference is the A568 gears go through a special heat treating process for hardness IIRC. I beleive the REAL reason people want the A568 stuff is the fact they get the 4-pinion diff. Big whoop is all I have to say. Get a Quaife and be done with it(or the OBX if they ever get them). The Neon Quaife bolts right in the A543...

Anyways......
This is not true. There is a change in most of the gears which makes the tranny more well rounded. When combined with the 523's 3.5 final drive and intermediate shaft, it is really tall setup. This is perfect for turbo applications because it is tall and strong. This is the setup in my 543 for my turbo v6.


Frank
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I have built several automatic transmissions for both FWD and RWD Mopars, so I'd be building my own here.

If I went with an automatic, I'd look for a 3 speed that bolts to the V-6, or the 4 speed OD automatic lockup if I couldn't find a 3 speed.

I was thinking that with the insanely short stroke (2.99") of the V-6, the thing to do would be to put in a 5 speed and rev the hell out of it in every gear. 6,000 rpm, 7,000 rpm, whatever the rev limiter will allow.

But, if an automatic is faster than a 5 speed in the 1/4 mile, use an automatic.

To have a second car around, I was thinking of finding one of the lighter FWD Mopars, like a Duster or Shadow (2 door ONLY) with a V-6 and building it up for some street fun. It'll go to the track now and then for test and tune nights, but consistency won't be a big issue because I don't have the patience to make 3 runs in 5 hours on bracket racing days.

Along with ported heads and all the other stuff, I'd put on a better exhaust system also. I forgot to mention that before.

I wonder how hard it is to put the 4 cam 3000GT VR-4 heads on the V-6 and have the computer (which computer?) control the fuel properly?
 

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a 3.0 forum has had a hude debate on the head thing. it is simply not worth the time and effort and money. i it would cost the same to just get the whole motor.

also the manuals are way faster than the auto's in the 1/4 depending on the time . i would really like to know what he was doing with the car
 

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yahoo has a group, the 3litreV6 mailing list. when i had my my V6 daytona i was on there for a little while, unfurtunately the car developed cancer in the wheel wells and the lower frame rails, and had to go. since the shelby was cheap for the money i got it and got hooked on these turbo's. dont get me wrong i miss my V6 car ALOT. but, i like my T-tops, and like the better fuel mileage of the turbo car and thus is where i shall stay untill somehow i create a DOHC V6, then i might change things again... anyway, as for the tranny selection, the A604 is a nice tranny. just i dont like automatics. i swapped to a 5spd. the first 5 spd. i got was a 3.55 FD A543 out of a 90 car. nice tranny, really let the V6 run, however the gearing made it feel as fast as the auto or sometimes slower! the 2nd tranny i got was out of a 92 IROC V6, still a A543 but with a 3.77 FD. that tranny coupled with a stock IROC R/T clutch. that setup was the BOMB! if anything and all else considered, that tranny, 92-93, the R/T clutch, and the polyurethane bushing for the cables, is an awesome setup for the 1/4 mile, and for some back road racing. no complaints from me.

Scott
89 Daytona Shelby 2.5T1 (really soon to be T2)
 
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