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Discussion Starter #1
Hey everybody I have an issue with my 91 2.5 daytona shelby garrett turbo 2 intercooled. Recently I switched over to synthetic mobile 1 and I noticed it started using oil and started smoking sometimes after a heavy acceleration not during acceleration and not when idling or cold starts just after heavy accelerations for a few seconds and then clears up. Does anybody have any ideas what it could be maybe a bad pcv valve?
 

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First, I salute you for switching to Mobil 1, I swear by Mobil 1 (For anybody reading this, I am not going to get into a debate about motor oils) and have used it exclusively since 1988, it gained me a consistent 1/10 second in the 1320' when I first used it in my 72 Duster in 88, it was used in my Daytona in 1990 starting with the first oil change.
I still only change my oil/filter once a year, however, I only drive about 3000 miles a year.

The only thing I can tell you about switching to Mobil 1 and this is not a bad thing...
It will over time clean all of the varnish that has accumulated on the engine parts and it will clean any sludge that has built up from using dino oil, this will not happen overnight, it happens over time with continued use so when you see the oil turn black quickly it is not a problem, it is doing its job and still protecting with quality lubrication.

Mobil says that the oil being "slipperier" and leaking past oil rings and seals is a Myth.

Since you are switching to a synthetic on an older vehicle I would recommend using Mobil 1 "High Mileage which I switched to about a two years ago.

https://mobiloil.com/en/article/car-maintenance/learn-about-motor-oil-facts/high-mileage-motor-oil

As far as why you are burning oil, yes a restricted/open PCV system may/can cause blowby issues.
Other causes of burning oil would be valve seals, valve guides, worn oil rings or turbo seal issues.

1)The issues with the PCV systems on our cars is the PCV hose gets soft and collapses or the grommet on the valve cover gets hard and cracks.

PCV-1 Piece Intake PCV System.jpg

121vrro.jpg

2)Are the spark plugs showing any signs of fouling?
(There are two types of oil fouling, the wet oil on the plug that we are all familiar with and an "Ash" fouling.

https://www.austincc.edu/wkibbe/plugchart.pdf

3)Is there any oil in the air filter housing.
4)Is there any oil in the charge piping from the turbo to TB?
5)Is there any smoke coming from the oil cap opening with the cap removed and the engine running.
 

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I agree with everything with NAJ posted above, and check through his recommendations as well.

But food for thought, despite my common sense, I have experienced a similar issue with trying Mobil 1 synthetic in the original well worn 2.5 Turbo motor in my Daytona Shelby.

I experienced reduced oil pressure and some minor smoking while running the Mobil 1 synthetic. I had an excellent PCV system with catch can. Next oil change I switched back to my original Conventional (Pennzoil) and both issues cleared up. Both oils were 5W30.

I swear something goes on with synthetic when you throw it in a high mileage motor that ran conventional all it's life, but I can't explain it with science or fact.
 

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I agree with everything with NAJ posted above, and check through his recommendations as well.

But food for thought, despite my common sense, I have experienced a similar issue with trying Mobil 1 synthetic in the original well worn 2.5 Turbo motor in my Daytona Shelby.

I experienced reduced oil pressure and some minor smoking while running the Mobil 1 synthetic. I had an excellent PCV system with catch can. Next oil change I switched back to my original Conventional (Pennzoil) and both issues cleared up. Both oils were 5W-30.

I swear something goes on with synthetic when you throw it in a high mileage motor that ran conventional all it's life, but I can't explain it with science or fact.
I also Googled "switched to synthetic and now smoking" and "switched to synthetic and now burning oil" and that question has been asked before and the common replies/responses are that it subsided and went away over time.

https://www.google.com/search?ei=f3dAXZrkMYTu_Qbx-534CQ&q=switched+to+synthetic+and+now+burning+oil&oq=switched+to+synthetic+and+now+burning+oil&gs_l=psy-ab.12..0i22i30l2.26709.31583..35573...0.0..0.229.2603.1j15j2......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j35i39j33i22i29i30.u2JDTk_Fa9w&ved=0ahUKEwjan6j7jt3jAhUEd98KHfF9B58Q4dUDCAo

https://www.google.com/search?q=switched+to+synthetic+and+now+smoking&oq=switched+to+synthetic+and+now+smoking&aqs=chrome..69i57.14926j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

When I switched from conventional to synthetic in my 72 Duster I just did it and never gave it a second thought and never had an issue.

Also I stopped using 5W-30 in my Daytona and started using 10W-30 High Mileage.
Try a higher viscosity oil and see if the issue persists.
 

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I also Googled "switched to synthetic and now smoking" and "switched to synthetic and now burning oil" and that question has been asked before and the common replies/responses are that it subsided and went away over time.

https://www.google.com/search?ei=f3dAXZrkMYTu_Qbx-534CQ&q=switched+to+synthetic+and+now+burning+oil&oq=switched+to+synthetic+and+now+burning+oil&gs_l=psy-ab.12..0i22i30l2.26709.31583..35573...0.0..0.229.2603.1j15j2......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j35i39j33i22i29i30.u2JDTk_Fa9w&ved=0ahUKEwjan6j7jt3jAhUEd98KHfF9B58Q4dUDCAo

https://www.google.com/search?q=switched+to+synthetic+and+now+smoking&oq=switched+to+synthetic+and+now+smoking&aqs=chrome..69i57.14926j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

When I switched from conventional to synthetic in my 72 Duster I just did it and never gave it a second thought and never had an issue.

Also I stopped using 5W-30 in my Daytona and started using 10W-30 High Mileage.
Try a higher viscosity oil and see if the issue persists.
In my case I didn't give synthetic another try due to the expense of it, I can get good conventional at times for 1/4 the price. Was hard to justify on my hobby budget.

Good to note though, after checking the basics and motor health, and if the smoking isn't unbearable maybe try 2-3 oil changes worth of driving to see if it resolves.

I switched to 10W30 conventional in my new rebuilt 2.5T motors for summer, and 5W30 for winter storage no issues since. Hot humid summers and cold ass winters here in NS
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Ya it hasn't done it anymore so maybe I'm hoping it has gone away but I haven't really had any hard accelerations either and I put a quart of high mileage 10w30 but it had 10w30 in it already and I put in some blue devil at the same time. When I did the change I also changed in my 07 ram with the hemi and it never smoked but it was using oil like a quart every 400 miles I ended up putting in k&w engine stop leak and it used about 1/4 to half a quart initially and hasn't used any more since and I have probably 800-1000 miles on it since...
 

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Hot humid summers and cold ass winters here in NS
All the more reason to use a Synthetic Oil especially on a Turbo car.

You also mentioned storage, synthetic will not be affected by condensation buildup from sitting for long periods.


Ya it hasn't done it anymore so maybe I'm hoping it has gone away but I haven't really had any hard accelerations either and I put a quart of high mileage 10w30 but it had 10w30 in it already and I put in some blue devil at the same time. When I did the change I also changed in my 07 ram with the hemi and it never smoked but it was using oil like a quart every 400 miles I ended up putting in k&w engine stop leak and it used about 1/4 to half a quart initially and hasn't used any more since and I have probably 800-1000 miles on it since...
Just an FYI...
CHRYSLER TSB SENT TO ALL DEALERS
(5)-Engine Oil Supplement TSB.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #8
So here is a follow up on my burning oil situation. It's still burning oil but only after acceleration and then will clear up after mellow driving. I replaced the pvc valve didn't help but it appears to me that it goes in backwards? It can only go one way. I checked the intake it's all clean and dry of oil. I replaced the spark plugs because they were all ash fouled and all of them looked the same. So all cylinders are getting the same amount of oil. I'm thinking maybe valve guide seals and if the pcv valve is backwards when the engine boosts its gonna pressurize and maybe push back through valve guide seals. But it didn't ever do this before I changed over to synthetic oil? Any ideas any body? thanks
 

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So another update. I spoke to a Mobile 1 representative. They told me to check compression as there might be worn rings. I also spoke to my dad which he used to be a mechanic for the military. He says that my oil rings aren't seating due the the synthetic oil being slipperier than conventional oil. He also thinks I should drain the oil and flush motor with diesel and refill with conventional oil and do a quick oil change after like 100-200 miles. So I just did a compression test on all 4 cylinders. I have from 65psi to 95psi across the board. I know that's low! What psi should a healthy cylinder be in a 91 2.5 turbo? I personally think that the Mobile 1 cleaned up deposits on pistons and rings to the point that the rings may have shifted and there still might be some deposits causing the rings to stick. The oil is pretty black for only 500-700 miles of use. It also has used about 2-3 quarts of oil also. Keep in mind there was no smoking or oil use before switching over to Mobile 1 synthetic oil. Any body have any ideas what to try to get the rings freed up if this is the case? thanks
 

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130 to 150 PSI, something is warn out, rings could be stuck and seafoam might free them, you dont have much too loose. it needs a rebuild or at the very least a hone and ring job.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
First off the motor was rebuilt by a guy on here a few yrs ago. It only had 2 owners since then. The guy before I got it from built the car up I'm guessing at least 300hp. Ended up ruining the head. The kid I got it from had a new head put on and didn't know what he was doing and started taking off high performance parts and replacing with oem and cheap parts. I had to piece back together everything back to stock form in order to get it running. It ran fine with no oil usage or burning oil before switching over to synthetic oil. I never did a compression check before the oil change though.
 

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I would do a compression test again, adding some engine oil to the cylinder to see if it affects the reading. make sure its the rings causing the compressing loss and not the valves or head-gasket.
 

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I'd lean toward stuck rings by the sounds of it, if testing it with some oil in the cylinder doesn't increase the compression readings. Leak down test is useful as well in this situation to see where the compression leakage is going
 

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So I did another compression test with oil and they all pumped up. So I poured seafoam in the cylinders and soaked for a few hrs and it helped bring up the compression a little. Now I have got cyl #1 at 95psi, cyl #2 at 76psi, cy #3 at 105psi, cyl #4 at 115psi. #2 cylinder is being stubborn but it has raised about 11 lbs since I started. These are dry readings. It's been soaking with some diesel and bp blaster since yesterday. So I will find out if I freed it up some more. I have hope since I am seeing some improvement. The car sat for a couple years while the kid had it that I got it from because he couldn't get it running. I'm also wondering if I'm even gonna get a full range of compression without resetting the rings after all this and all the oil glazing is probably gone at this point?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
So I did a wet test again after this and I had cyl #1 117 cyl #2 117 cyl #3 125 cyl #4 126. So I decided to go ahead and put Mobile 1 High Mileage synthetic oil back in. Fired it up and it smoked like a bear for about 15min. Then it cleared up and I drove it to reset the rings and now it has more power, no smoking at all so far and you can even hear the difference the the exhaust. Woke the old girl right up! I'm stoked. Still want to take it on a longer drive to try and get the rings cleaned off better. After a long drive I'm gonna take another compression test and see what I've ended up with.
 

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Having just read all of this recent information...

1)Neither a compression test or a cylinder leakdown test will not reveal worn or "stuck" oil rings as they do nothing to provide pressure in the cylinder and that is what both tests check.

2)General compression test results are...
A minimum of 100 PSI on all cylinders with the lowest being withing 25% of the highest.
From The FSM
SPECS-Engine Compression.jpg

3)A compression test shows the engines ability to build pressure, a cylinder leakdown test shows the engines ability to hold pressure.
The two tests go hand in hand.

4)Synthetic should not be used on a new or newly rebuilt engine because the rings will not seat properly due to the reduced friction, however, an engine that has been run for at least 500 miles and is over two years old...

Your engine and I are both happy you put Mobil 1 back in. :thumb:
 

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Discussion Starter #19
This damn car. Very frustrated. I took it for a drive and put on 150 miles. It ran good but started smoking at the end of the drive. Doing the exact same thing and used half a quart of oil..... I think I'm just going to keep driving and finish out the season till winter and then I can re-ring and hone it and take in the head to get port and polished. Hopefully I will get it painted this winter too.
 

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If I were you I wouldn't drain out the synthetic oil. But every time you lose a half quart of synthetic oil pour in a half quart of conventional. With some luck maybe adding the conventional oil will stop the problems.
 
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