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1987 Shelby GLHS #0958
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Discussion Starter · #61 ·
I can't tell you how many friends I have seen install a catch can with a line 1/2" or smaller, and they are suddenly pushing all of their engine oil out all the time. In cases where people have installed a road draft system, the car will be smoking from the exhaust constantly. I've always had stock PCV in place. I'm guessing if you have a higher mileage engine and you don't pull atomized oil out, you end up burning it. I guess I'll see what happens at some point here.
 

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Discussion Starter · #62 ·
I was piddling around in the warehouse trying to clean up the last couple days. Threw some parts together for fun.


275366


The package is exceedingly large like this.:ROFLMAO:

I got to thinking because the turbo on the right is an Ed Peters style S70(uses a .48AR hot side) I mentioned it being built like that to a buddy recently, and he was just aghast that someone would do that. I was like "The point is for it to spool faster."(Or at least I think that was Ed's thinking) Any thoughts from you fellas? Do you think turbos with a small AR hot side and a giant compressor wheel have some kind of functionality or even an advantage in a twin turbo setup?

Has anyone done any testing of the effect of gravity on oil feeding and sealing on T3 cartridges, or mitsu cartridges that are in odd positions? Like say, if I made high nickel cast iron adapter plates to rotate the turbos, even as much as 90 degrees to bring the EM plenums in side by side since the intake would have to be fabbed more or less from scratch anyway for the twinsie craziness. For the sake of just power testing, the engine system really can just be oriented however. Packaging can be an afterthought. We might find that the trouble really does outweigh the benefit.

I'm still waiting for this thread to get cleaned up and posts moved elsewhere. I am starting to feel weird about spraying all this stuff all over Rob's story thread, even though it's ...somewhat, related.
 

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Clean up should commence shortly.

As for your Q;

Along with many other theories and opinions that were frowned upon in the earlier years, running the smallest A/R to support the HP has always been my forte. This was and still is a bone of contention with others, just like the ported stock exhaust mani that I predicted would be good to at least 500WHP some 20+ years ago.

My lizard brain has always been able to completely Separate the intake side from the exhaust side, which for whatever reason, most seem to struggle with. When you separate the 2, you can much more easily See what is needed. The trick, is once you know what you're looking for in compressor flow and turbine A/R, and wheel size, Making sure you find a match that will compliment and not fight against each other.

Small engine turbocharging continues to attempt to catch up to this as well, but even in this day and age, lots of Efficiency left to be desired.

I will get right into all of this when the thread continues, as it is part and parcel to how everything worked out and will continue to in the future.
 

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Discussion Starter · #64 ·
🖤 I remember you speaking of your Father's engineering book that explained how, at least on the mathematics side, ICE's efficiencies are pathetic at best.

The way I look at the cold side/hot side sizing is sort of the way that people look at the valves. If you look at the design of most ICEs, the exhaust valves are significantly smaller. Even though it goes against my idea of what a gas does when heated(that they expand and take up more room), they do this because the hot exhaust gasses move at a significantly higher rate of speed, right? I think that may be exactly why the size of the passages on the stock exhaust manifold don't reduce power that significantly. My thoughts are, even though my picture shows some unmodified parts stacked up for fun, to figure out how to get the two plenum runner sets(3s and 4s) sitting side by side by any means possible. Balance the flow out of every cylinder, and the engine might survive longer at higher boost levels. (evening out crank and block stress, as well as block and head temperatures, but most importantly cylinder temperatures) The custom equal length header is a great way to go about that but in a street setup I don't like how a header is eventually going to fatigue and crack, no matter what you do.

Hey, what do you know about cryogenic treatment of engine parts?🤑 I have only found specific theories on what cryo-treatment does to steels and cast irons. I like what I see, but I want to know more about whether it can help stabilize the head castings to better resist high stress at high temps.

I really hope that we don't lose any of this tank thinking/brainstorming(lizard braining?)
 

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Discussion Starter · #65 ·
WOW! We went through four pages of large posts already?? Time flies when you're having fun!
 

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When I looked into cryo treating, and after some research, I came to the conclusion that it can be beneficial to constant high load parts, but failure in high stress "Shock" parts seemed to be common. This seemed to suggest that because the parts become more brittle, they do not handle Shock loads as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #67 ·
Do you remember reading anything about it's effect on aluminum? I'm not finding much. Martensite and austenite don't come into play in the face centered cubic structure of aluminum like they do in steel.
 

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Discussion Starter · #68 ·
I would think valvetrain components would be things that sustain high shock. I just wonder if an engine block would do well with it. Then if 100% filled, would probably hold crazy cylinder pressures. I'm going to be looking in the yards for Mexican produced vehicles. Many folks have stated over the years that the Mexican block castings have a much higher nickel content than their U.S. counterparts. PM guns are getting cheaper and cheaper.
 

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Discussion Starter · #69 ·
Found a Mexican casting head last week. Damn thing is missing three cam caps!

Hey Rob, what sort of ideas did you have about boost control for TTs? I was thinking about that when I woke up this morning. A few weeks ago I had been digging around looking at info about electronic controllers capable of controlling twin turbos but information about how they are set up seems very limited.
 

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Are you planning on building a twin turbo? If I had built the twin I would likely have run a single boost controller and just split the signal equal length to each W/G actuator.

One of my bigger concerns was how to run the turbo's to the intake, as I was originally going to go with header style dual split intakes, but didn't like the thought of unequal boost pressure. Solution I came up with was to feed the turbos into one side of the same I/C which after that I could do whatever I wanted.
 

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One of my bigger concerns was how to run the turbo's to the intake, as I was originally going to go with header style dual split intakes, but didn't like the thought of unequal boost pressure. Solution I came up with was to feed the turbos into one side of the same I/C which after that I could do whatever I wanted.
You got me thinking and this is what I came up with.
275758

You install the turbos so both hot side outlets are facing towards each other so the pipe can rejoin as one. The intake side is ran along the sides of the engine to the front The cold side outlet is rotated up then a pipe is ran to the intake ports. Along that pipe there is a throttle body (in purple). Each cylinder has an ejector (green). After the throttle body and before the split there is a tube that connects each side to the other to equalize different pressures.
No idea if it would work or if it is feasible but it’s an idea.
 

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Discussion Starter · #72 · (Edited)
As long as you calibrate the controllers, there's no reason to run a single. In fact you could unbalance your boost by doing so. There is no way to make sure that every part of the actuators is exactly identical in every way. With two controllers each pair of cylinders is sure to see exactly the boost that you have calibrated the controllers for. You could run a balance tube like that to help during some sort of emergency to try to prevent damaging the crank, which is a problem we've never had to deal with before. Boost reference may need to be taken from the compressor then. I wonder if it may want to bounce back and forth if taken at the manifolds. I was just curious if anyone had looked into the electronic boost controllers that are specifically for twin turbos.

Harmonica, did you check out the twin Mitsu setup that was posted earlier in the thread?

The exhausts were merged and there was a complaint that the performance gain wasn't worth the trouble. What I feel would be the whole point is that if you have half the exhaust flow moving through the turbine you have twice the ability to control boost which is the whole issue with the Mitsubishi units. You could run 2 3" exhausts and still be able to control spool speed/boost. Dumping them out one 2.5" flange shoots your pressure differential through the roof.

Take a look at your port orientation(on your car). From the driver side it's intake, exhaust, intake, exhaust, intake, exhaust, intake, exhaust. My eyes hurt from looking at the sketch.😜

DISCLAIMER: All of my chat in these think tank threads is purely speculation for the sake of discussion and thought stimulation.
 

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There is also the other type of twin turbo, the sequential twin turbo system.
814AF44E-FFBA-4D2D-9165-73C36B2F9A60.jpeg


I think that a sequential turbo system would be more interesting to see how it works. It would also be a lot harder to implement.
 

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Discussion Starter · #75 ·
I was mostly joking since these are just concept drawings. Technically now we'd be looking up at the combustion chambers.(ports are swapped):ROFLMAO: Sorry! Sorry! Don't shoot!!!
 

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I was mostly joking since these are just concept drawings. Technically now we'd be looking up at the combustion chambers.(ports are swapped):ROFLMAO: Sorry! Sorry! Don't shoot!!!
To avoid future confusion if someone is reading this in a few years, corrections to my corrections

twin turbo
85AE31A0-68AF-42C3-AB7E-DB949D350FFC.jpeg


sequential turbo
0E55EE06-02E5-4FE0-831D-08DF7A8F7DC0.jpeg
 

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Well, your twin turbo is starting to resemble what I was planning way back in the early days, minus the obvious missing FMIC's that is.

Keep in mind, the only reason for twin turbo's back then was;

1. efficient single turbo's for 600+HP on a restrictive 8v really didn't exist.

2. Our whole premise was to put together the build from parts we had, or were easily attainable and the Cnd $ was 63 cents vs US. So with almost anything custom coming from the US, turbo's for eg, the price was almost double by the time it got to Canada. I could buy the S60 turbo back then from Chrysler, cheaper than any price I could find Anywhere with Zero shipping to pay. This is one of the reason the twin turbo even became a thought. The Efficiency of dual 3" exhaust was the 2nd Big factor!

If I were ever to complete the twin turbo, it would only be for the nostalgia/ personal reasons and would prob just be a show piece. Tuned but only lightly run.

Interestingly, very little would change from it's final design parameters from way back then, other than Cam/ Clutch/ Turbo's
 

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Discussion Starter · #80 ·
I said what I said. Think of the air as being the hero on a long trek in a sci fi fantasy. Beyond the turbines lies the conclusion to it's quest.
 
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