[camarobutcher]

On the way home from school, during the last mile or so my car died about five times. First when I was coming up to a light with the clutch in, the rpms dropped to like 500, stumbled and died. It started back up but lacked power. Then it did it another 3 times when shifting so I'd just let out the clutch and it started up again while I was still driving down the road. I pulled it into my driveway and it stalled when I pushed the clutch in. Now it throws a code 13, 45, and 55. It started up after trying for a while for maybe 5 seconds and ran really rough. There are no broken, disconnected, or leaky vacuum lines. Car makes 16-17 inches of vacuum at idle. Already went on MinimoparResources, good info but only works went the car is running.

 

[glht_omni]

replace your vacuum lines before you blow your engine. 13 is the map is unplugged, vacuum line or wire connector. 45 is over boost, you are maxing out the fuel injectors and the ecu is shutting down to save the motor and let you know something is wrong.
replace it all with new lines and tees or a vac block.

 

[camarobutcher]

Already replaced all the lines and the distribution manifold, I had to use two different sizes though since no one around here had more than 2 feet of 1/8 line in stock. It overboosted all the time once I put a 3in exhaust on. A plugged vent hole in the grainger made it overboost lately. Now it looks like its not getting any spark, at least on two of the plugs.

 

[glht_omni]

if your map is plugged in and the vac lines are correct and not leaking and not pulling any other codes, i am cluless.
how do you have your vac lines routed and where is the grainger and wastegate line?
is your plugs, wires, cap and rotor really old? you usually have spark on all 4 or none at all.

 

[NAJ]

Do not assume everything is correct until you run diagnostics. Plug fouling from a MAP problem is to be expected, MAP is dominant fuel control.
Here are the diagnostics for code 13.
These are from a 1990 FSM, everything is the same(including wire colors) except controller cavity location.
I will also post the SMEC pinout so you have the wire location at the controller.

 

[camarobutcher]

if your map is plugged in and the vac lines are correct and not leaking and not pulling any other codes, i am cluless.
how do you have your vac lines routed and where is the grainger and wastegate line?
is your plugs, wires, cap and rotor really old? you usually have spark on all 4 or none at all.

I bought a distribution block from ace hardware, has one inlet and three outlets. One line goes from the vacuum block to the wastegate with the grainger inline. Another is for the boost gauge. The last goes to the map with a tee to the fpr and I think the factory boost gauge. Plugs, wires, cap, and rotor are about two years, maybe 12000 miles old. What is the key counter on the map fault?

 

[glht_omni]

code 15 is a bad map sensor.
i would run a dedicated line to the map and run the wastegate from the turbo nipple, use the other port for the fpr.

 

[NAJ]

MAP codes.
13, MAP Pneumatic Signal, No variation in MAP sensor signal is detected
or
13, MAP Pneumatic Change, No difference is recognized between the Engine MAP reading and the stored barometric pressure reading.
14, MAP voltage too low, MAP sensor input below minimum acceptable voltage
or
14, MAP voltage too high, MAP sensor input above maximum acceptable voltage
A scanner is needed to identify exact code description.
Code 15 is VSS.

 

[camarobutcher]

Car still doesn't start, theres no spark. Anyone think it could be an HEP problem? Thats what it sounded like when I read old posts. Anyway I called a Dodge dealership and they said that no one would stock it, and its like $88 to order it from Chrysler.

 

[01NeonSnooZer]

NAJ I applaud you for actually finding and using a trouble-tree. That's awesome, dude.

 

[glht_omni]

i have had heps go out while driving and in between starts, they are a common problem, get a used one if you can, but if you are going to get a new one GET A MOPAR, and not a parts store brand.

 

[NAJ]

No spark may be an ASD problem, Hep problem, Ignition Coil, Distributor not turning,etc.
Locate the underhood diagnostic connector, with the key on/ engine off ground the DB/YL wire,this will actuate the ASD relay, with a test light connected to ground check for power at the + coil, if there is no power check the ASD relay circuit,if power is present the ASD is ok.
Disconnect the ground from the diagnostic connector, have a helper crank the engine while you again check for power at the + coil, if no power is present the problem is in the HEP circuit, if power is present connect your test light to + batt and while cranking check the coil -, the light should blink, if it does not the problem is on the ignition control side circuit, if it does unhook the coil wire from the dist cap and hold 1/4" from ground and crank the engine, if there is good strong spark the problem is in the dist cap or rotor, if no spark the problem is the coil wire or coil.
To 01 Neon SnooZer,THANKS!!!
I have a lot of formal training in engine management and do not believe in throwing parts at a problem, if you happen to have a spare, then sure throw it on but to go out and buy parts when you are not sure......
Proper diagnostics on our cars for the most part only requires a multi-meter, test light, backprobe pins, fuel pressure gauge, vacuum gauge and noid lights or logic probe, if you have a scanner even better.
These cars stock are not that complex electronically compared to the new Can Bus Systems I see everyday.
My check engine light came on Thursday coming home, checked codes, TPS, took 5 minutes with a voltmeter to verify V-Ref, Signal Line and Signal Return were ok, sweep TPS and watch voltage fall off at part throttle,Auto Zone 5 minutes away had it in stock and 5 minutes to install.

 

[camarobutcher]

Where exactly is the ASD relay under the hood? Also how do I ground the DB/YL wire? Sorry about the stupid questions, I'm wiring impaired.

 

[NAJ]

On your vehicle it there is a group of relays on the L/Fender (driver side) the ASD is the first relay towards the front of the car. The others are the A/C clutch, Cooling Fan, Starter Relay (on the strut tower)
The diagnostic connector is in the wiring harness near the engine controller.
Ground the Dark Blue/Yellow in the diagnostic connector (do not start the engine with the wire grounded, just turn the key on)wire using a piece of wire with a spade connector on 1 end and an alligator clip on the other, just connect it to the DB/YL wire in the diagnostic connector and to a good ground such as the - batt terminal.
When you jump that wire the fuel pump will run, that is supposed to happen, the ASD relay powers the fuel pump, + coil, injectors and the heated oxygen sensor.
When cranking the controller will not actuate the ASD until it sees a crank signal from the HEP.
When you ground the DB/YL wire you are actuating the ASD as if you were using a scanner to actuate.

 

[NAJ]

Oh, by the way without sounding philosopical,
The only stupid question is the one that is not asked and
It is easier to answer stupid questions than it is to fix stupid mistakes.
None of us were born with this knowledge, we all had to learn so.... ask away.

 

[camarobutcher]

NAJ, I followed your instructions with my uncle's help. We went through everything we got a spark from the coil wire but a weak spark from the plugs. So I replaced the cap, rotor and plugs. Then when swapping the wires one broke off in the cap so I went back to the parts store and got some new ones. I put those on and tried to start it and nothing. I double and triple checked the order I installed the wires and their correct. So I check for codes and 13 and 45 are gone. Now I have codes 42 and 54.

 

[NAJ]

42 is ASD relay circuit and 54 is the fuel sync signal from the HEP.
42 may have been set during your testing, be sure all connections are tight, clear the codes and crank the engine for 10 seconds and recheck the codes.
Since you have spark I am sure the ASD is ok and the code 54 is your no start problem.
The HEP on a turbo supplies a crank/rpm signal and a fuel sync signal so the controller knows where #1 cylinder is.
54 is usually caused by a damaged wire in the HEP and will require HEP replacement.
Be sure that all connections are tight and secure at the HEP, if you replace the HEP do not bend the wires down the side of the distributor as the factory had them or wire damage will occur. I wrapped the wiring with electrical tape where it exits the distributor and sits on the housing to reinforce and looped the harness around to the connectors securing the HEP wiring to the engine harness with wire ties so it does not vibrate and used 3/8" wire loom to prevent rub thru or pinching of the wires by the wire ties.
If you still have the water shield on your distributor be sure when you install it it does not pinch the HEP wiring, I left mine off and have encountered no problems in 4 years.

 

[camarobutcher]

My car still doesn't start. I replaced the HEP with a Mopar one and nothing changed. The only codes are 12 and 55. When I did the diagnostics, the asd kept the fuel pump running even when I ungrounded it. I don't know if that means anything. Also, when you connect the test light to the +batt and check the -coil, is it supposed to light up before it blinks.

 

[camarobutcher]

I couldn't find out what was wrong with it so my uncle trailered it to his shop and the mechanic looked at it. I guess the timing belt jumped a few teeth and the belt is pretty trashed. Looks like I'll be doing a timing belt this weekend.