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Discussion Starter #1
Do Turbo cars have different starters than N/A cars? If so how do you tell the difference between the two starters?

Do only Turbo cars have heat shields on the starters or do N/A starters have heat shields too?

Do the Turbo starters have a longer lifespan?

Have any of you used the Direct Connection Light Weight Starter? Any thoughts about it good or bad?
 

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both turbo and n/a starters are the same, the non turbo cars ive removed starters from didn't have heat shields but could have just been gone from age
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I missed buying a starter off of ebay. It was labeled on the starter with a "turbo" sticker that also said you need to install the heat shield.

Is the paint color on the Turbo car starters different then on N/A cars? Possibly because they have a heat resistant paint on the starters in turbo cars.
 

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both turbo and n/a starters are the same, the non turbo cars ive removed starters from didn't have heat shields but could have just been gone from age
this is incorrect
though the starters used over the years changed

the early cars had a nipindenso starter or a bosch
turbo cars got the bosch .. that would be the one with the silver turbo sticker on it

later cars got different starters again
and around 86 they also changed the bolting arrangement
the early cars had a bolt that was a pain to install behind the solonid
the cars after got a stud and a nut- the stud being installed on the starter to replace the difficult to install bolt

- thus the hole in the trans at the corresponding location has no thread
 

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Discussion Starter #5
"turbo cars got the bosch" hmm, was that because they were smaller and would put a larger air gap between them and the exhaust manifold? Or were they stronger? Maybe only the engineers know for sure.

Weren't the NIPPONDENSO starters much larger than the BOSCH starters?

I know that larger doesn't mean better. But does anybody know if one is better than the other?

The starters on the N/A 2.2 and 2.5's don't seem to have a problem lasting 160,000 miles or more.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Do the later starters with the new bolting arrangement work on the 1984-1985 vehicles?
 

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"turbo cars got the bosch" hmm, was that because they were smaller and would put a larger air gap between them and the exhaust manifold? Or were they stronger? Maybe only the engineers know for sure.

Weren't the NIPPONDENSO starters much larger than the BOSCH starters?

I know that larger doesn't mean better. But does anybody know if one is better than the other?

The starters on the N/A 2.2 and 2.5's don't seem to have a problem lasting 160,000 miles or more.

The late gear reduction Denso starters were smaller than the Bosch version. But, there was an early Denso starter that was the same size and style as the Bosch. The original starter on my Scamp was a Denso starter. In fact, I'm still using it with the new turbo motor. I just added a wrap around heat shield to it.

I believe a big part of the reason the N/A starters last longer is reduced heat. The N/A exhaust manifold is a little farther away from the starter. Also, the turbo generates more heat back there than the N/A motor, so that adds to it.

But Dr. Johny is correct, in 86 they changed the way the starters bolt up. You can use the older version on the newer transmissions if you use the correct sized bolts & nuts, but the new version won't work on the old transmissions.
 

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no , the bosch starter was the largest of the bunch
it had a heavier caseing and a better protected solenoid with less plastic exposed to the heat

for the early cars the bosch was the better unit
the carb nipindenso's burn at the plastic on the end of the solenoid , BADLY - the plastic turns to a chalk like material that can be dug away with a thumbnail

they also had a bad habit of not working if left unused even if only for a couple of months

my bosch starter still worked after sitting unused in the car for almost ten years

the later cars had starter that were considerably smaller than the bosch and were about as good

sadly most cars got the bosch starter swapped for the crappy denso unit when they were still back in the 90's thus the reason some think the turbo cars came with the early denso junk
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Funny how times have changed. Now much of the Nippondenso parts are often thought to be superior to Bosch parts.

Makes you wonder how Nippondenso went so wrong with their version of the starter.

I guess I need to look at some pictures of the Nippondenso starters because I thought they were larger in diameter than the Bosch starters?

What is confusing is how I always thought that the Bosch starters had a Flat back end and the "denso" starters had a rounded back end. Now I am seeing Bosch starters with the rounded back end. Hmm, was it earlier or later years that the Bosch starters had a rounded back end?
 

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bosch was bigger and much heavier than all the others
the early denso carb starter is also larger than the later ones

you can use the later starters in an 84-5 but you need to ream out that one hole
- which is doable as it's accessible
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I guess when you pull your engine that would be the best time to swap out the starter.

Thank you for correcting me. I made a typo. I meant I thought the Nippondenso starters were larger in diameter than the Bosch starters. You did confirm that in your answer that some of the "denso" starters were larger. Larger or not than the Bosch starters I don't know. But I haven't had a Bosch starter fail yet. Or fail to turn even after sitting for 6 months to 1 year with no starts in between.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I do have two of the Direct Connection Light Weight starters which are of course much thinner. I guess one of those will be in the cars future.
 

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There are three styles of starters these cars use.

There is the fat Bosch style used in the early cars:



The skinny style Bosch style used in many of the cars:




Then lastly is the Denso / gear reduction style alternator:




The Mopar Performance starter to my understanding is just the skinny style Bosch style retroactively offered for vehicles using the fat style starter and labeled as a "performance" product.

The Denso / gear reduction style starter is only slightly smaller than the skinny Bosch style. It is a gear reduction motor only using 1.0 kW or 1.2 kW (depending on what source you read the power output varies) compared to the Bosch style that uses 1.4 kW motor. What it lacks in power is made up by the better gear reduction that this starter has. This starter is preferred in, I think, the weird hybrid DOHC head swaps that people used to do before simply dropping in SRT motors. This starter clears something specific to that swap.

You can identify the gear reduction starter / Denso style by the ribs connecting to the center snout of the starter. The Bosch style starters did not have this.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I found the answer to two of my questions. When I was putting the shift rod retaining clips on the shift rods (you know the ones that pop off) I looked up at the starter. On my 1984 N/A vehicle it did have the fat Bosch style starter. It also has the heat shield on it as well. But the heat shield seems to be there mainly to cover the solenoid and protect it but it does drape over part of the starter too.

I just measured the Direct Connection Starter. Lengthwise from the back of the body to the tip of the cone end it measures 9 3/4 to 9 7/8. The diameter of the starter body measured 2 3/4 to 2 7/8.

Maybe one of you who has a skinny style Bosch starter sitting on the shelf can measure it so we can learn if they are the same size as the Direct Connection Starter. That would be the starter as seen above in the second picture.
 

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there's still one starter missing from the group , the early carb car denso
it's sized between the two bosch units and has a larger plastic section on the end of the solenoid that cooks on a turbo car

it looks much like the smaller bosch in the second pic
 
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