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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Saw this rebuild kit on ebay and was wondering if it would be worth picking up for my 87 csx. Seeing how the car is so old. It does have what sounds like lifter tick when the motor is hot but not when cold. Probably could use a timing belt. It uses a little oil and smokes a bit from the tailpipe occasionally. Clutch ticks when in neutral. Oil pan gasket leaks. 70k miles on the motor. The body is great but the motor is showing its age.

What are your thoughts on this rebuild kit?

 

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Those kits are fine for some Engines but are not suitable for our Engines.

Especially pistons, ours are very high quality Mahle but are now unavailable.

Retain your originals unless they are broken then try to find some used.

Hyperutectic are about all that's available now and they aren't reliable.

Many happily, needlessly tear down well serving decent Engines.

Then replace the quality parts with cheap parts, EG: oil pumps.

Majority of Engine shops are not your Turbo Dodge friend.

They replace everything as that's the way they operate.

That's no issue with run of the mill SBC, SBF, SBM's etc.

Not bashing Engine shops but we're not running SBC's

I try to never rebore or regrind a crank whenever possible.

For necessary parts, select quality, individual components.

Thanks
Randy
 
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Those kits are fine for some Engines but are not suitable for our Engines.

Especially pistons, ours are very high quality Mahle but are now unavailable.

Retain your originals unless they are broken then try to find some used.

Hyperutectic are about all that's available now and they aren't reliable.

Many happily, needlessly tear down well serving decent Engines.

Then replace the quality parts with cheap parts, EG: oil pumps.

Majority of Engine shops are not your Turbo Dodge friend.

They replace everything as that's the way they operate.

That's no issue with run of the mill SBC, SBF, SBM's etc.

Not bashing Engine shops but we're not running SBC's

I try to never rebore or regrind a crank whenever possible.

For necessary parts, select quality, individual components.

Thanks
Randy
Those Hyperutectic pistons are crap even in a stock rebuild. This was in a stock 2.5 t1
20210330_195636.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Wow. So the aftermarket engine parts are crap. Does the same apply to suspension and drive train parts as well? Axles, wheel bearings, shocks etc. I just put my 87 in the shop for some work this afternoon. Oil pan gasket, lifter tick when hot/ under strain, axle, wheel bearings and some other things
 

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The thing is, in other Engines Hypers can be satisfactory.

Lots of guys/shops use them with reasonable success.

I ran a Ford set in a drag race BBM and they were fine.

With our Engines we have 2 points working against us.

First, ours are boosted and Hypers are more sensitive to boost.

Second, and possibly more, important our Engines are a tiny market.

No further development was spent on improving them for our Engines.

With say a SBC, they get any needed improvement as they sell so many.

And C, Todd will bring up..

Thanks
Randy



Those Hyperutectic pistons are crap even in a stock rebuild. This was in a stock 2.5 t1
View attachment 275747
 

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Aftermarket Engine parts aren't always crap but when they are it's bad.

As mentioned, pistons are a big issue and re builders always replace them.

It's not a very enjoyable Engine experience with brand new cracked pistons.

I have concluded is there are more dud mechanics and shops, than dud cars.

Not only with our cars but others, however, my interest is with our ancient 2.2's.

Many times owners hear, after unsatisfactory work, its just an old Dodge.

The same old minor missteps can become expensive issues in our world.

Our cars aren't that complicated but many shops are unfamiliar with them.

Many times the repair done is the first time it's been performed by the shop.

I don't mean to bash shops and mechanics as there are some good ones.

The trick is finding one in your area that can diagnose properly.

One can learn a lot here asking specefic individual questions.

Old timers like me can't deal with too many at a time.

More is learned by keeping discussions on point.

Lifters don't tick when hot under strain.

Clutches don't tick in neutral.

Thanks
Randy


Wow. So the aftermarket engine parts are crap. Does the same apply to suspension and drive train parts as well? Axles, wheel bearings, shocks etc. I just put my 87 in the shop for some work this afternoon. Oil pan gasket, lifter tick when hot/ under strain, axle, wheel bearings and some other things
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Lifters don't tick when hot under strain.
I'm a horrible mechanic so it's probably not lifters. Lol all I know is that when the motor is cold or run easy, it sounds fine. But if I'm coming up the mountain and push it hard that's when it starts. Tick tick tick tick. Shut her down for a few hours and let the old girl cool off and it goes away.


Clutches don't tick in neutral.
Lol everything seems to be Ticking on this car.


[/QUOTE]

I wish I knew more about cars but it's a struggle for me. I'm 43 years old and you can teach an old dog new tricks. Not only that but between these 3 dodges I have, I just don't have the time to learn much but I do learn what I can. My 89 has 40k miles on ir and excellent condition, but had the vnt25 replaced with a vnt28 and I'm trying to get that straightneed out. My 87 has 69k miles and the body is rust free but came with some mechanical problems. My 88.... well.... lol it's 210k miles and falling apart. Bur I love my turbo dodges so I keep stacking them up in the yard lol. And giving all my earnings to the mechanic.
 

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Lifters don't tick when hot under strain.
I'm a horrible mechanic so it's probably not lifters. Lol all I know is that when the motor is cold or run easy, it sounds fine. But if I'm coming up the mountain and push it hard that's when it starts. Tick tick tick tick. Shut her down for a few hours and let the old girl cool off and it goes away.


Clutches don't tick in neutral.
Lol everything seems to be Ticking on this car.
I wish I knew more about cars but it's a struggle for me. I'm 43 years old and you can teach an old dog new tricks. Not only that but between these 3 dodges I have, I just don't have the time to learn much but I do learn what I can. My 89 has 40k miles on ir and excellent condition, but had the vnt25 replaced with a vnt28 and I'm trying to get that straightneed out. My 87 has 69k miles and the body is rust free but came with some mechanical problems. My 88.... well.... lol it's 210k miles and falling apart. Bur I love my turbo dodges so I keep stacking them up in the yard lol. And giving all my earnings to the mechanic.
[/QUOTE]
Try thicker oil. Maybe it's thinning out hot....
 

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The trick is to give your earnings to the right mechanic!!!

They can be very hard to find and even then one must pay attention.

The thing that kills Engines and cracks pistons, especially boosted, is detonation.

Simply put, detonation occurs when the air/fuel mixture explodes in the chamber.

That's why its called detonation!! Its also known as pinging or spark knock.

This explosion can be audible sounding like what some call a ping, clang or tick.

Simply put, detonation in caused by excessive heat and/or pressure within the Engine.

Heat is obviously temperature, both within the Engine and from the outside weather.

Pressure can be compression pressure or Engine load, either by weight or terrain.

Simply put, octane is the fuels resistance to detonate or explode, it should burn rapidly.

Higher octane has the effect of burning slower and avoiding already mentioned explosion.

Ignition timing is also an important factor as early spark can induce the mentioned explosion.

Due to temperatures effect on detonation, Turbocharged Engines often use intercoolers.

Obviously the intercooler cools the incoming air to help eliminate damaging detonation.

The pressure aspect can be thought of as higher compression ratio within the Engine.

Or, the load applied against said Engine, either by excessive weight or hilly terrain.

Detonation is the sworn enemy of Internal Combustion Engines!!

Its up to you whether you care to learn a few basic facts.

You may already know these but your post indicates not.

Modern Engines have very advanced detonation protection.

Many don't know or have forgotten some Engine basics.

Timing is fixed on modern Engines so many forget its importance.

Many don't know even know the firing order with modern multi coil ignitions.

Evaluating detonation, is it more apt to occur with:

1: A hot or a cold Engine.?

2: Premium or low octane fuel.?

3: Advanced or retarded ign. timing?

4: Driving aggressively or calmly.?

3: Going up or down hill?

4 : Driver only or loaded?

Thanks
Randy
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I actually have a good mechanic. He seems to know his stuff and I've never had any trouble with him. He's knowlegible and honest. He drives a race ar on the weekends.

I haven't done an oil change yet [I know, but I've only put 200 miles on the car]. I got the car last year and the mechanic will be doing the first oil change when he repairs the role bolts and leaky oil pan gasket. That's why I held off on the oil change. I am going to put in 15w50 as the owners manual suggests.

1: A hot or a cold Engine.?
Hot

2: Premium or low octane fuel.
Octane 93

3: Advanced or retarded ign. timing?
.... what? Lol

4: Driving aggressively or calmly.?
Depends on my mood. But the tick is noticeable when driving it hard up the mountain, which can be considered aggressive when passing truckers.

3: Going up or down hill?
Up hill pushing it hard.

4 : Driver only or loaded?
Just me. I'm an average 155 pounds. 165 around the holidays lol

worth mentioning the idle is a Bit rough. I've got some plugs and wires to try.
Thanks


Randy
[/QUOTE]
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
BTW thanks for the long post. It was useful info. I may learn something yet. I know the basics about how the combustion process works to move the pistons but you were much more detailed. Thanks for the help, as always. You guys seem to really known your stuff.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
So my mechanic says he thinks my cams are goimg bad is causing the Ticking when I'm coming up the mountain. He says I need new cams, lifters, rocker arms and a timing belt while he's in there.

He said I should get a performance cam. Anyone have any suggestions?
 

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You're very welcome but you might have missed my point.

Think hard !!!

Thanks
Randy

BTW thanks for the long post. It was useful info. I may learn something yet. I know the basics about how the combustion process works to move the pistons but you were much more detailed. Thanks for the help, as always. You guys seem to really known your stuff.
 

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I'm very curious as to why he thinks it's ticking only going up the mountain??

How would the extra Engine load of going up a hill affect the valvetrain??

Please explain before you waste a bunch of $$$.

Then a camshaft discussion.

Thanks
Randy

PS: I think you missed the point of my long post.



So my mechanic says he thinks my cams are goimg bad is causing the Ticking when I'm coming up the mountain. He says I need new cams, lifters, rocker arms and a timing belt while he's in there.

He said I should get a performance cam. Anyone have any suggestions?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
Well here's exactly what it's doing. I starr the car up and everything sounds normal. I can drive the car down to town to Walmart or wherever and it sounds fine. On my drive back home coming up the mountain you will occasionally encounter slow moving trucks and other vehicles. So lets say I'm feeling impatient and give her pedal to the medal and RPM close to recline. By the time I get to the top I've got a loud "tick tick tick" from the top of the engine that increases in speed as i give it more gas. This sound continues until I shut the key off and let it cool down. Then an hour later after it has cooled, I turn the key and start the car. Now for a brief second when the car first starts again, I hear the Ticking again but it's very brief and only a few ticksn then it goes away completely and the process starts all over again with a smooth ride to town and Ticking on the way back.


Also he said the bolts on the oil pan were completely missing, not broken. There were no bolts in the oil pan so he replaced them with the ones I was given.
 

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Did you check the oil pump pickup with the pan off??

They often get clogged with silicone from previous repairs.

Sometimes pickups are too close to the bottom of the oil pan.

Wouldn't matter going up or down hill but with spirited driving.

Oil starvation can surely cause Engine ticking and Engine wear.

Oil starvation or air entrainment can certainly cause a "lifter tick.

After a cooling down period, the tick often quiets until the next cycle.

Thanks
Randy
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
So I just drove the car back from the garage and now it's Ticking all the time. Ticked all the way home. So whatever it is it's getting worse. I'll stop in tomorrow and ask him about the oil pump after work.

Where would I find a camshaft anyway? Rockauto has none. Didn't see any on advance autoparts.
 

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You want a used OEM camshaft and rockers from any 1989-1995 Engine.

This will give you a nice high RPM bump and save some $$

Anything else is a waste of time.

Thanks
Randy
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
The hard part would be finding the parts. But won't used parts be just as bad as what I already have installed? There's no aftermarket performance parts available? I'm not too terribly concerned about money I just want the car fixed and fixed well. I guess ill start looking. So this can come from basically any 1989-95 chrysler turbo engine or does it have to be from a shelby variant? I'll still check on the oil pump.

BTW, those bolts for the oil pan I was sent, my mechanic didn't use them. He said there are no bolts on the oil pan... what the? No bolts? How does it stay together with no bolts???
 
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