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Discussion Starter #1
When I turn the key on, the fan is powered.

I checked the codes and I had :
- 36 : wastegate solenoid,
- 35 : radiator fan control relay circuit open or shorted
- 51 : air fuel at limit
- 22 : coolant sensor voltage low

I repaired the 22 error and the 51 disapeared.
Then I replaced the wastegate solenoid and the 36 error was corrected.

I don't know how to repair the 35 error, where is located the fan relay ?

I don't know why but I have now the 24 error.

Thanks
Louis
 

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typically mounted on the drivers side shock tower under the hood. this relay will sometimes stick closed causing the fan to run anytime the key is on or engine running. tapping on the relay w/screwdriver handle will sometimes cause the relay to release. If there is no short in the wiring causing a powered circuit for the fan to run then it is more often than not the relay needs to be replaced. The strut tower will often have 2 or three relays present, the fan relay would be in the pair on a 3 relay config but I cant be positive it is the right or left one.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks
I will try to find which is which.

Where I can buy these relays, solenoids, ...
 

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Does this vehicle have a PDC(power distribution center)or seperatly mounted relays on the left fender.
If they are on the fender here is a pic.

If your CEL is illuminated due to a hard fault code the cooling fan will run constantly.
After clearing the codes did the Code 35 return?
Is the Code 24 still present?

 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks for your help.

I have what is shown on the pic.

I don't know how to clear the codes, except by removing the battery.
By doing that, I get the code 12 (memory to controller has been cleared) buy the error 35 is still there with the error 24.

I will try tomorow and see if I still get the same codes after using the car.

Thanks again.
Louis
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I changed the relay but I still have the same code error (35).
The relay I have used (50732) is not exactly the same that I have replaced (83159), see pic.


When I connect the fan, it turns immediately.

I don't know how to clear the codes.

Later after I reconnected the battery I took the car and curiously the engine light was off.
The iddle was not constant.
About 15km later the engine light came on and the I checked the code :
I have now : 12, 24, 35 and 51.
12 = memory to controller has been cleared : perhaps because I disconnected the battery
24 = tps voltage high/low : is it the tps failure which gives a bad iddle ?
51 = air fuel at limit

Can I take a tps from a manual car (mine is auto), I still forget if it is the tps or the ais which is different.

what can I do for the 35 code ? Does the relay I have used match the older one ? Did I replace the right relay ?
How should I check to remove this error and stop the fan running ?

How can I clear the codes : by disconnecting the battery ?

Thanks for your help.
 

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I am leaving for work and will be home late.
If you do not get any answers I will get with you on this tomorrow morning.
 

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I changed the relay but I still have the same code error (35).
The relay I have used (50732) is not exactly the same that I have replaced (83159), see pic.


When I connect the fan, it turns immediately.

I don't know how to clear the codes.

Later after I reconnected the battery I took the car and curiously the engine light was off.
The iddle was not constant.
About 15km later the engine light came on and the I checked the code :
I have now : 12, 24, 35 and 51.
12 = memory to controller has been cleared : perhaps because I disconnected the battery
24 = tps voltage high/low : is it the tps failure which gives a bad iddle ?
51 = air fuel at limit

Can I take a tps from a manual car (mine is auto), I still forget if it is the tps or the ais which is different.

what can I do for the 35 code ? Does the relay I have used match the older one ? Did I replace the right relay ?
How should I check to remove this error and stop the fan running ?

How can I clear the codes : by disconnecting the battery ?

Thanks for your help.
Clear codes by disconnecting battery, correct.

Code 12 is from disconnecting battery and will clear itself after a certain number of on/off cycles.

If the arrangement shown in the pic above is same then you need to replace the relay labeled "fan" in the pic.

TPS should be same between same year manual and auto. The tps rides at the end of the shaft holding the throttle butterfly. When you open the throttle and the shaft turns tps varies its output. The ais will not be concentric with the throttle shaft.

Hope this helps until NAJ gets back.
 

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With regards to the fan situation only....
Do you still have a *live* circuit situation to the fan (key on) when the relay itself has been removed?
The contact side is live directly off the battery, remove the relay and there should be no way for that circuit to close.
The control side is operated by the PCM (SMEC), it acts as the source for ground to energize the control side coil in the relay which closes the contact side.
If the PCM is not to blame, then another circuit paralleling the rad fan is closed causing the relay to react. Try removing the A/C relay (which also controls the rad fan) and see if that keeps the rad fan off. The only other circuit that brings on the rad fan is the PCM controlled temp sensor.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thank you very much both of you.
So I must remove the fan relay and that should stop de fan,
If it is not the case, I try with another relay,
If it is the case, then that may comes from the PCM or the temp sensor.

Is this correct ?
 

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Thank you very much both of you.
So I must remove the fan relay and that should stop de fan,
If it is not the case, I try with another relay,
If it is the case, then that may comes from the PCM or the temp sensor.

Is this correct ?
Well, removing the fan relay (and leaving it out) is not a solution to your problem, you have to have the fan circuit operating properly to keep the engine from overheating.
The relay itself may not be the cause of the problem, but the contact side is remaining closed because another circuit on the relay control side somewhere else is keeping that circuit live. That could be the A/C circuit or the engine temp sensor which are both monitored by the PCM. If the PCM is getting a *false* input from either of those two it can/will close the circuit for the rad fan.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I removed the fan relay and the fan was off.
Then I recoonected the fan relay and I removed the AC relay (the one in the middle in my pic) : the fan was still on and I got a new error : n°42.

I will need a new temp sensor (is it the one located below the thermostat box ?) to go further.

I changed the TPS but got the same error (35), so I checked it with an ohmeter and it seemed fine : the resistance increased progressively from 0.82kohm to 4.04kohm
I have to find a way to test the 3 wires (ground, +5V and variable) to know if the signal is good, but when the tps is connected I can't access to the wires

I'm fed up with this car, nothing comes easy for me
 

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I removed the fan relay and the fan was off.
Then I recoonected the fan relay and I removed the AC relay (the one in the middle in my pic) : the fan was still on and I got a new error : n°42.

I will need a new temp sensor (is it the one located below the thermostat box ?) to go further.

I changed the TPS but got the same error (35), so I checked it with an ohmeter and it seemed fine : the resistance increased progressively from 0.82kohm to 4.04kohm
I have to find a way to test the 3 wires (ground, +5V and variable) to know if the signal is good, but when the tps is connected I can't access to the wires

I'm fed up with this car, nothing comes easy for me
Interesting.....Code 42 is the autoshutdown error code, are you sure you did not disconnect the ASD harness?
Code 35 is not for TPS, that is the rad fan circuit *open or shorted*...that should be correct seeing as you disconnected that harness.
 

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Did not get a chance to read the entire thread yet but keep in mind that when you manually actuate the ASD to perform diagnostics a Code 42 will set in memory.
 

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I need the year of the car to get you more detailed wiring info.

I am not even going to read thread so I do not get confused.
I am going to deal strictly with the "fan will not shut off" at this point.
The A/C clutch relay and the cooling fan relay should be the same so you may want to swap them first to see if the problem disappears.

1)If the CEL is illuminated due to a "hard" fault the cooling fan will run constantly.
2)Verfiy coolant temp sensor voltage is correct, if the controller thinks the engine temp is too high the fan will run until the temp comes down.
a)With the key on/engine off disconnect the CTS connector, probe the 2 terminals(backprobing of terminals is always recommended), voltage should read 5 volts.
b)If 5 volts was present reconnect the CTS connector and backprobe the connector and read voltage, is voltage = to temp?
3)If the above check ok your issue is with a faulty relay or the relays ground control circuit being shorted.
4)Remove the connector from the relay and engine controller.
a)Use your ohmmeter and check resistance from each end of the cooling fan ground control wire to ground, there should be no continuity.
5)If there is no continuity present replace the relay.

 

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Discussion Starter #17
The car is a 1989 dodge turbo shadow 2.5L with auto trans.

A little history : when I bought the car, the engine light was on 80% of the time and sometimes not (20%).

I discovered later that the seller "repaired" the car with 0 money spent :
- the air filter was entirely removed but the border was still there,
- the turbo oil lines were pinched,
- the rear sway bar was missing,
- the AC was removed,
- the spare wheel and the jack was missing,
- the rear spoiler was removed in order to allow the hatch to open.
- perhaps others things I still have not discovered ...

Later I did a TII conversion and since this time the fan was on.
3 things may have a link :
- bad engine ground because the intake was painted,
- temp sensor was damaged when the head was removed,
- temp sensor and other electrical components were damaged when the engine was cleaned before painting,
- wires that goes to the temps sensors were cut and repaired with tape, I soldered them again.

That being said and back to my problem : I have swaped the relay and still have the codes 35 and 24.

Sorry for these dumb questions :
-what is the CTS connector, is it the connector that goes to the temp sensor ?
-probe the 2 terminals : so I put a volmeter in the 2 temp connector wires, correct ?
- when I reconnect the CTS connector how can I read voltage, since the terminals will be hiden ?

What is the reference for the temp sensor, the chrysler dealer asked me the reference because he can't find it.
If I get a new temp sensor, can I put it directly in the connector without removing the old one (so it will get the air temperature) just to see if the error disapear ?

Thanks
Louis
 

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The chart I posted shows the voltage to temperature.
The dealer will not find/have that chart, it is not in any service manual.
I had one from a training manual and then used my car(2.2L turbo) and my
Son's car(3.0L)with a scanner and digital voltmeter to make another chart that is more precise.

CTS = Coolant Temp Sensor

When you probe a connector/terminal you want to "backprobe" the connector to avoid damaging the terminal itself.
Probing the front side can result in spread terminals that will create other issues.
Backprobing means accessing the terminals from the rear of the connector using backprobe pins(or paper clips).

BACKPROBING A CONNECTOR



 

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Discussion Starter #19
Thanks NAJ
I'm doing it right now

What I was asking is the mopar reference for the temp sensor to order one from the dealer.
 

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Mopar calls it a Coolant Temperature Sensor but be sure that is what you need.
The CTS will only be the cause of the problem if the controller see's a higher temp than what is actually there.
 
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