[Clementio_76]

Hello,
This is my first post on this forum. My friend Paul, known as Laurp, advised me to ask for help over here.
I bought a Chrysler LeBaron 3.0 V6 from 1992 this March via the LeBaron network in the Netherlands. Test driving it and doing a key dance gave no codes than 12 and 55 so there was no problem at that point. When I picked it up it started to give a Check Engine light after about 20 minutes driving with fault codes 17 and 32. At that point I thought these codes had to do with the gearbox: intern TCM failure for code 17 and hydraulic pressure for 32. I got it checked at a professional garage for gearboxes. The box is revised about three years ago. They could not detect the codes and nothing was wrong. The car drove fine. It did not stuck in gear two, for example.
The codes came and I did reset the board computer several times by disconnecting the battery. Recently the board computer was cleaned but unfortunately the codes stayed.
Yesterday, after 40 miles driving to my work, I heard a high zooming sound from the back. I did the 'key dance' and there was no code besides 12 and 55. I started thinking and recalled a broke fuel pump I had with the LeBaron I had before this one. It was about the same sound. When I drove back from my work I heard the sound again and this time, after a few minutes drive at 60 mph the car kind of blocked for a moment. I drove on and after 30 minutes, driving at 80 mph, it blocked again for a short moment. Luckily I returned home safely. There was no indication light Check Engine but the key dance gave codes 12, 17, 55.
At this point I have a few diagnosis:
Spark plugs were renewed recently but maybe one of them got broke?
Is the fuel pump almost dead? And/or does the fuel filter need to be replaced?
Is there something wrong with the gearbox if the fault codes do point at that?
The VIN code of my car is 1C3XJ453XMG162421.
I hope this message is clear enough to help me find a diagnosis.
Thank you very much in advance!
Clement.

 

[NAJ]

Welcome To TD!!!
Code 17 "Engine is cold too long. Engine coolant temperature remains below normal operating temperatures during vehicle travel (thermostat)."
99% of the time this code indicates a stuck open, wrong temp or missing thermostat.
You can check actual engine temp by "backprobing" the CTS and reading the voltage, the voltage translates to an exact temp.

Code 32	EGR solenoid circuit	An open or shorted condition detected in the EGR transducer solenoid
	or	circuit.
	EGR system failure	Required change in fuel/air ratio not detected during diagnostic test.

 

[Clementio_76]

Dear Jan,
Thank you very much for your welcome and reply!
I'm not that experienced in this field so I am very grateful for your information.
I have the impression code 17 and 32 are connected to each other. Is that correct?
Anyway, I will take this information to my mechanic and start solving the problems.
Clement.

 

[NAJ]

You will not know if the two codes are related until the thermostat is replaced and the Code 17 is no longer present.
Keep me posted.

 

[Clementio_76]

You will not know if the two codes are related until the thermostat is replaced and the Code 17 is no longer present.
Keep me posted.

Ok, I will.

 

[Clementio_76]

Ok, I will.

You will not know if the two codes are related until the thermostat is replaced and the Code 17 is no longer present.
Keep me posted.

Dear Jan,
It's been a while since your last reply. Today I picked my car up from the garage.
The thermostat has been changed: it was broke. I also got the fuel filter changed: it was very dirty. So far, so good.
What the mechanic figured out is that the airco is always running when the blower is on. It seems the button to switch it on/off does not work anymore. This might be the problem for code 17: the engine is cold too long. What do you think?

 

[NAJ]

You are saying that regardless of mode the A/C compressor is always cycling on/off so the cooling fan is constantly cycling on/off?
The compressor will cycle on/off when you are set to defrost, that is normal to keep humidity levels lower in the passenger compartment so the windows do not fog up.

1)The A/C issue may not be caused by the HVAC control head/A/C switch, you may have an issue with the A/C Clutch Relay keeping the A/C compressor on.
If you place the HVAC control head on floor, with A/C off (switch is out, not in) and blower on, is there power (voltage) on the A/C Clutch relay output terminal?
There should not be.
You can also swap the relay with another relay of the same part # (that is not needed for the engine to run such as the washer relay) to see if the relay is the issue.

I assume your mechanic has a scanner to access your system?
If Yes, he can go to actuator tests and cycle the A/C Clutch Relay on/off so you can check output voltage and listen for the relay to click on/off, no voltage should be present with the relay cycled off.
He can also use the scanner to read data and see if the A/C is on/off which is how you can check the A/C switch.
If this does not find/correct the issue...
2)I assume the correct temperature thermostat was installed? (192/195 degree thermostat)
3)If the Code 17 is still present and you feel the A/C is causing the issue then disconnect the compressor under hood and see if that fixes the issue.
4)What is the cooling fan doing, is it constantly on, does it cycle on/off as the A/C compressor cycles on/off.
5)What is actual coolant temp?
To see actual coolant temp backprobe the CTS and read/watch the voltage, the voltage translates to an actual temp.
Backprobing

3.0L CTS Location

3.0L CTS Voltage to Temperature Chart (Taken directly from my Son's 94 Sundance 3.0L with a digital voltmeter for voltage and a scanner for actual temp)

 

[Clementio_76]

You are saying that regardless of mode the A/C compressor is always cycling on/off so the cooling fan is constantly cycling on/off?
The compressor will cycle on/off when you are set to defrost, that is normal to keep humidity levels lower in the passenger compartment so the windows do not fog up.

1)The A/C issue may not be caused by the HVAC control head/A/C switch, you may have an issue with the A/C Clutch Relay keeping the A/C compressor on.
If you place the HVAC control head on floor, with A/C off (switch is out, not in) and blower on, is there power (voltage) on the A/C Clutch relay output terminal?
There should not be.
You can also swap the relay with another relay of the same part # (that is not needed for the engine to run such as the washer relay) to see if the relay is the issue.
View attachment 283935 View attachment 283936
I assume your mechanic has a scanner to access your system?
If Yes, he can go to actuator tests and cycle the A/C Clutch Relay on/off so you can check output voltage and listen for the relay to click on/off, no voltage should be present with the relay cycled off.
He can also use the scanner to read data and see if the A/C is on/off which is how you can check the A/C switch.
If this does not find/correct the issue...
2)I assume the correct temperature thermostat was installed? (192/195 degree thermostat)
3)If the Code 17 is still present and you feel the A/C is causing the issue then disconnect the compressor under hood and see if that fixes the issue.
4)What is the cooling fan doing, is it constantly on, does it cycle on/off as the A/C compressor cycles on/off.
5)What is actual coolant temp?
To see actual coolant temp backprobe the CTS and read/watch the voltage, the voltage translates to an actual temp.
Backprobing
View attachment 283932
3.0L CTS Location
View attachment 283933
3.0L CTS Voltage to Temperature Chart (Taken directly from my Son's 94 Sundance 3.0L with a digital voltmeter for voltage and a scanner for actual temp)
View attachment 283934

You are saying that regardless of mode the A/C compressor is always cycling on/off so the cooling fan is constantly cycling on/off?
The compressor will cycle on/off when you are set to defrost, that is normal to keep humidity levels lower in the passenger compartment so the windows do not fog up.

1)The A/C issue may not be caused by the HVAC control head/A/C switch, you may have an issue with the A/C Clutch Relay keeping the A/C compressor on.
If you place the HVAC control head on floor, with A/C off (switch is out, not in) and blower on, is there power (voltage) on the A/C Clutch relay output terminal?
There should not be.
You can also swap the relay with another relay of the same part # (that is not needed for the engine to run such as the washer relay) to see if the relay is the issue.
View attachment 283935 View attachment 283936
I assume your mechanic has a scanner to access your system?
If Yes, he can go to actuator tests and cycle the A/C Clutch Relay on/off so you can check output voltage and listen for the relay to click on/off, no voltage should be present with the relay cycled off.
He can also use the scanner to read data and see if the A/C is on/off which is how you can check the A/C switch.
If this does not find/correct the issue...
2)I assume the correct temperature thermostat was installed? (192/195 degree thermostat)
3)If the Code 17 is still present and you feel the A/C is causing the issue then disconnect the compressor under hood and see if that fixes the issue.
4)What is the cooling fan doing, is it constantly on, does it cycle on/off as the A/C compressor cycles on/off.
5)What is actual coolant temp?
To see actual coolant temp backprobe the CTS and read/watch the voltage, the voltage translates to an actual temp.
Backprobing
View attachment 283932
3.0L CTS Location
View attachment 283933
3.0L CTS Voltage to Temperature Chart (Taken directly from my Son's 94 Sundance 3.0L with a digital voltmeter for voltage and a scanner for actual temp)
View attachment 283934

Dear Jan,
Many thanks again for your extensive reply!!
I chose option 3 (disconnecting the A/C) after talking to my LeBaron Paul. I went for a ride of half an hour 30 mph up tot 80 mph. Putting the blower ON the temperature did NOT rise: the indicator showed the motor was still completely cool. Putting the blower OFF the indicator showed the temperature was rising. As well the mechanic as my LeBaron guru Paul do not really grasp this. Is it an electronical problem? And is the motor really not warmed up and does it not function efficiently? By the way, Code 17 did NOT appear, neither did Code 32. That's the good part
What are your thoughts on this?
Cheers, Clement.

 

[NAJ]

You disconnected the A/C so now the cooling fan should cycle on/off with engine temperature, not each time the A/C compressor cycles on/off.
1)Is the cooling fan cycling on/off as it should? (Cycle on at approx. 217 degrees F, Cycle off at approx. 190 degrees F) (See post 7 for checking actual coolant temp and fan cycle temps)
2)If the engine is running at the correct temp and the fan does cycle on/off as it should you are good to go, you only need to determine why the A/C will not shut off.

Let me know what engine temp is and if the fan cycles on/off as it should and we will go from there.

 

[Clementio_76]

Thanks again, Jan. I will figure it out and let you know. It might take some time since the car is now at the garage with a problem in the brake system :-(