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Discussion Starter #141
I got a bit more of the top end done.

Parts!

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Cleaning up with kerosene and then oiling up for assembly. We will see if the PT lifters play with a regrind cam. Ive heard many stories of both ways.

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Prelube!

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Got some of the moving parts assembled. The cam sprocket took some mild massage with a file because the keyway broaching was slightly burred. Once the cam is torqued down. I can finish assembling and painting the timing side of the engine.

Thanks guys,
Mark
 

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Good mornings guys.

So yes i did use the arp head bolts. I wasnt aware of the longer than stock issues. Most of my bolt holes were TIGHT and could not be hand threaded. This was a 10mm block that i drilled and tapped, and clearly i did tap enough depth nor general cleanup. Once i ran the tap through a few more times through each holes, life was good.

So for the exhaust keepers... I really put in a lot of effort to find the perfect part. I spent over $200 trying and failing, ive learned a lot about keepers at this point. In the end, i just reused the stock 8 degree locks. They really did fit the best. The only other multi groove 7 degree, 8mm (did i get that right? It has been months!) That i found were too small and sat too deep into the retainer. I will keep an eye on what ive assembled to see if they are pulling through the titanium.

As for the beehive, the mic that i bought was too dang big for the head. As well as the shim kits if i recall correctly. So i said hell with it an assembled with a single mopar shim for wear...and moved on. Sad face

I wanted to go with the F2/R2+ but i couldnt get one. So all i could snag was an F4. Cindy was reassuring that with my combo, so we will see!

Thanks for tuning right back in again guys! Ill fill you in on every bit of drama! XD

Thank you,
Mark
Hey Mark,
The ARP headbolts are .250" longer than production headbolts. Most people end up just doubling up on washers, but a few take the time and spend the money on a bottoming tap. That usually gives you enough thread before bottoming out. You can tell if they bottom out by feel. If they suddenly tighten up and are not stretching, they're bottoming out. Of course you can measure them too. Many people have had issues with these headbolts, resulting in headgasket sealing issues. They are nice, as the shank is significantly thicker than a production headbolt. Even slightly thicker than the newer "not undercut" ARP head studs. Contacting ARP about the issue is pointless. they've been told many, many times. They could care less...
Here is an attachment showing the lengths and diameters of various headbolts.
Did you ever check port volumes of intake and exhaust ports after your porting?
I hear you about spending money on valvetrain parts. I've spent a fortune on custom guides, valves, tried numerous retainers, locks, springs, etc. Then there is all the money and time spent on porting and flowbench work.
IMG_1067.JPG
 

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Good mornings guys.

Most of my bolt holes were TIGHT and could not be hand threaded. This was a 10mm block that i drilled and tapped, and clearly i did tap enough depth nor general cleanup. Once i ran the tap through a few more times through each holes, life was good.
I was going to say: maybe you used a tap set from Harbor Freight?
😵:poop:😁
 

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Discussion Starter #144
Lol, you are trying to make me faint.

I cringe whenever the current youtuber suggests buying tools at Harbor Freight... But the worst part is that there is nearly no competition for them, especially american made tooling.

Sad face.

I was searching for a transmission jack for the Hellcat, and the choices are $160 no names or a $650 Westward. Where did Craftsman go?

~Mark
 

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Lol, you are trying to make me faint.

I cringe whenever the current youtuber suggests buying tools at Harbor Freight... But the worst part is that there is nearly no competition for them, especially american made tooling.

Sad face.

I was searching for a transmission jack for the Hellcat, and the choices are $160 no names or a $650 Westward. Where did Craftsman go?

~Mark
I was at a jobsite and the boss went to Harbor Freight to get us a drill bit set.
I tried the bits and they were causing a lot of vibration and didn't cut through metal.
I rolled them across a flat table top.
Every single one wobbled.
 

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Lowe's sells the hand tools now....:(
BTW: Armstrong tools and several other Made In USA brands were the ones making the tools for Craftsman.
I don't know who the suppliers are now.
 
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Discussion Starter #148
Oh man...boy have i fuuuuucked up.

So i had a fabulous morning this morning. I attacked the lifters. I will put together a full markup with photos tonight, but the intent was to verify all of the conjecture about shimming the pt lifters, and to what extent. Some good stuff. My calculations were complete and lifts installed for the last time.

And then it was time to torque down the cam. This is where i did it... Simply put, i misread the diagram in the FSMs, and started down the path of applying head bolt torque to cam bolts... I know, i know "i should have known!" I agree. I saw the numbers and said "Damn! I though the torque values were super low on the cam."

Luckily, i didnt start at the 45 ft-lb iteration. I decided to cautiously sneak up on in with the digital wrench, but i still made it to 35 fl-lb before i said "this aint right." Fortunately...ish, i didnt pull the threads out of the head. Ive been down that road (which is why i really do know better...). At this moment i was cursing myself because i was confident that i still need to helicoil every bolt hole.

Having stepped back, looking at the mess i made, i decided that i would go ahead and torque the caps to the real spec this time, to verify that the threads are good/bad. I though i had dodged a bullet when they all torqued well. But then the mess became clear... The cam is locked up solid. I figured i had distorted the cam caps, head, or both....

I started loosening the the caps individually trying to identify if it was only one bad cap, or multiples. Well it is at least three of them...

My thoughts: best case scenario is that i only distorted caps and i can replace them from another head and everything will be perfect and wonderful. Worst case scenario is that ive footballed every jounal and need to take it back to the machine shop to have the cam bearing resized. In the end, this wouldnt be a horrible thing if the cam lowered by .005-.010" because it would help the geometry with the regrind cam.

Nonetheless....****.

If it hadnt been 5 months since turning the wrenches, i would have called BS at my torque interpretation as soon as i read it.

Sad face.

To be continued,
Mark
 

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Hey Mark,
Just be aware that finding a machine shop that can actually bore/hone a over cam journal can be challenging. Many machine shops will be able to line bore/hone the crank journal, but line boring/honing cam journals are another story.
In MPLS, MN I found exactly one shop with that capability, and another one in the middle of the state. Hopefully all it will take is some honing.
If you have another camshaft, try that one before concluding it is the head that is fubar. Sometimes the camshafts themselves get bent up from running too tight of tension on belt and from overheating the crap out of the engine. Many people make the mistake of just resurfacing a warped cylinder head straight again, only to find the camshaft is bound up in the journals after the head gets torqued down.
I've seen enough snapped in half camshafts to know, it happens more than you'd think.
Good luck,
 

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Discussion Starter #150
Hey Mark,
Just be aware that finding a machine shop that can actually bore/hone a over cam journal can be challenging. Many machine shops will be able to line bore/hone the crank journal, but line boring/honing cam journals are another story.
In MPLS, MN I found exactly one shop with that capability, and another one in the middle of the state. Hopefully all it will take is some honing.
If you have another camshaft, try that one before concluding it is the head that is fubar. Sometimes the camshafts themselves get bent up from running too tight of tension on belt and from overheating the crap out of the engine. Many people make the mistake of just resurfacing a warped cylinder head straight again, only to find the camshaft is bound up in the journals after the head gets torqued down.
I've seen enough snapped in half camshafts to know, it happens more than you'd think.
Good luck,
That is a great point. I will take the time to measure everything to confirm where the fubar resides. I seem to recall that i have had the cam torqued into the head before when i was cleaning up cam caps. But! I would rather find a tweaked cam that torn up head!

Thank you,
Mark
 

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😭Nuuuuuuuuuuuu. It's all fixable, but holy cow that must have had you down. Don't sweat it man, and carry on! It will all be worth it!
 

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Discussion Starter #152
Fellas! Let me update you on my findings earlier this week.

After calming down, i decided to proceed with identifying the problem. I first removed all of the caps and spin the cam, using the head as V-blocks in a sense, and check runnout with a dial indicator. It appeared that the sprocket end was running true, and the was a gradual runnout increase at a max of .003" on the other end of the cam. Dang.

Moving on, i removed the cam and completely cleaned the head and cam, where i noticed a flake of aluminum schmeared onto the 3rd journal. After cleaning and reassmbling, it turns out that this was the most of my problem....doh.

Still. I carried on mic'ing the journals and cam, and the journals were very consistently .004" larger than the cam. So that seems rightish, even though the fsm doesnt give a real spec. One oddity though, the 5th cam cap mic'd at .012" larger than the cam. Strange. So i double checked other heads and this journal should be .004" as well... So chasing numbers, i swapped the cap with one from another head, and it still mic'd at .012"! This means that all of the extraneous gappage is in the head! Its as if the head was cut with a cap, they ID'd that they cut it .015" large, and then they swapped another cap on that actually got honed to the size of the rest of the journals.... Or someone else swapped the cap after the first one got tore up from way oversize. Who the heck knows...

Crazy stuff. Ive convinced myself that the critical dimension "cap" is good. This is what will take the load from the valvetrain. The large journal is going to reduce oil pressure in head, obviously, so im thinking ill put a gauge in place on the 3/8" npt plug that i put in the gallery just to check the pressure in the head. If its piss low, then i will need to start a new head.... Fml

Anyhow, im pushing on.
~Mark
 

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Discussion Starter #153
So i moved on to drilling the exhaust manifold for the T3 flange.

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Making a wooden jig to hold it straight in the drill press.

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Use spray paint as a guide and use a punch to eyeball the centers.

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Drill em and tap em. I enjoy drilling cast iron. Good pressure and medium speed and i really drills well. I had to buy a bottoming tap as well since two of the holes were so shallow.

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Look how the new hardware makes the manifold look nearly new! I definitely did not give it a light fogging of paint that is only rated for 500° and destined to burn off on the first start and hopefully in a manner that doesnt burn the car down too.

Stay tuned,
Mark
 

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Discussion Starter #154
Pet project, prep the scrubbiest valve cover i have to be repainted and used on the first engine.

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Back story, i bought it on ebay and started sanding to polish this bad boy back in 2003. Since not completing this project in a timely manner, she had some nasty stuff spilled on her which sat on her for years. I think it was weed killer. So she is in sad shape. You saw me use this what i painted the head.

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Ive started by sanding all of the nasty off of the words and ribs. Also i stripped the paint off.

To be continue. She will return to her former glory.

~Mark
 

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Discussion Starter #155
Time for some fun stuff. Test fits!
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New hardware!

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New manifold!

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Hx30 preclocking.

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Hx30 post clocking.

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Like it was meant to be, the factory garrett drain back tube nearly lines up perfectly. A little compensation with the hose, and we are ready for boost!

Thanks for watching.
~Mark
 

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:ROFLMAO: Good shit. I almost fell on the floor for that one. I suppose you would be safe with your cam cap situation since all the force is pushing up against the cap, but I would hate to lose that much oil pressure, and from the spray that generates, you might find that you draw a lot of oil with the PCV.
 

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Discussion Starter #157
That is an excellent point about losing more oil in the pvc catch can.... Dang.

Im so torn. The only other option is to start over on the head, which would suck so much.

It is a good lesson to take your time to verify that parts are good to start with when u decide to put money into them.

~Mark
 

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That is an excellent point about losing more oil in the pvc catch can.... Dang.

Im so torn. The only other option is to start over on the head, which would suck so much.

It is a good lesson to take your time to verify that parts are good to start with when u decide to put money into them.

~Mark
Hey Mark,
I've been porting these cylinder heads almost since they were new. I hear you about making sure your cylinder head is a good candidate or not for modifying before you put a bunch of time, money, and effort into it. Been down that road a few times myself. Since you have a bunch of time into porting it, I thought I would mention this. The aftermarket came up with bearing repair set for these heads back when there were millions on the road. That could repair your one oversized journal if you're really concerned about it. Since you have some machinist skills, I won't go through that procedure. Below is an attachment for a link to the part I'm referring to. Something to maybe consider. I've ran into exactly one head that had this done to it. The camshaft actually spun perfectly with the bearings installed. Part # is Sealed power 1840M
Good luck,
 

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Looking good!!

I always completely eliminate the PCV system on our 8V Turbo Engines.

It serves no purpose and has the potential to cause Engine damage.

Its the worst designed PCV system in history!!

These Engines don't need any PCV.

Even in winter.

Thanks
Randy
 

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Discussion Starter #160
Todd... You have messed me up. Long story short, i did a deep dive on the bearing shell installation, and i ended up purchasing the tooling to do it in house.... It cost me about $800 to get everything from Dura-Bond, for their bearings. The PDA-1 sets are $40 from Summit. The plan will be learn on one head, then repair my G-head, then start offering the service to the members of the TD community. Hopefully recoup the cost of the equipment after 8 or 10 heads.

Randy, you read my mind! I was doing more hella research on PCV last week and concluded that ours really does suck. There isnt an established flow of fresh air through the block. Sure then is a vent location for the positive pressure (pcv) but no really atmosphere flushing like on a well engineered system would have, so we get to deal with oil contaminated with blowby gases/fuel. Im thinking im going to run straight vacuum (but limited to 10") through a catch can. Screw the shoddy pcv that we a stuck with.

Good talk,
Mark
 
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