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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Car had ran great since I got the intercooler added....except issues of not going too many miles on freeway without car temp needle slowly getting higher.

That aside, it seemed to run great. But obviously something is up.

So, here it goes...
The car first showed a sputtering like issue only when starting the car when cold.
Progressed to lasting longer, in other words...I had to let it idle longer to get the sputtering/ roughness to go away.

It then progressed to when driving. It first attacked when I hit the freeway. Any acceleration past around 65 and it felt rough and the exhaust sounded loud. Like a fire hose shooting off. Odd.

But then progressed again to low speeds.
Now even when car is at idle as nd is really rough on acceleration.

So, I figured an injector was getting clogged.
I put a bottle of seafoam in to the tank.
Didn't help.

I took the first, third and fourth spark plug out. They look blackened....odd.
The reason the second wasn't checked is because it is stuck. When I changed the plugs last, I believe it's the same one that was stuck last time. Had to use penetrator oil. Not fun.

I have a 190 liter per HR pump. I have the TB lightly ported. Plus as said before, it's intercooled. Boost is set to 12 psi as I have the Mitsu turbo and don't want to push it.

Anyways, rich??? Having the boost up 5 psi and having mods I thought I needed a 190 lph fuel pump.

If the car is sputtering, you'd think the pump is dying....but the plugs show it's been running rich. The plugs didn't look to carboned up, fouling doesn't seem to be the issue.

My Daytona got a near new coil from my wife's old Daytona, so the coil has very little miles on it.

The pump is 3 yrs old with probably under 10k miles on it.

I am confused, sputtering usually means fuel, or spark is the problem. Maybe the coil is a dud? Maybe I need a stock fuel pump?

The plug wires don't look baked or worn out either.

I have a oil catch can, and I don't think it was emptied last oil change as I forgot to tell the shop to do so. I doubt they automatically did it.
Maybe the catch can is causing issues if it is full?

Enough of my guesses.
Any ideas?
Thanks in advance.
 

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DRIVEABILTY ISSUES
If there are no fault codes stored you need to follow a logical diagnostic sequence, here is Chryslers flow chart for driveabilty issues without fault codes or fault codes 51 or 52.
Ready to start?
Font Parallel Rectangle Document Number


RUNNING HOT DURING HIGHWAY DRIVING
Daytona has very little front grill area.
Overheating on the highway is due to one of two things.
1)The lower air deflector is missing/damaged
2)The intercooler is restricting airflow to the radiator.

SPARK PLUG #2 CYLINDER
You will need to remove this spark plug at some point considering you are experiencing a driveabilty issue.
You have to be careful, the cylinder head is aluminum and is easily damaged.
Remove the spark plug from #2 cylinder.
Bring the piston on #2 cylinder to TDC.
Chase the threads in cylinder #2. (14mm x 1.25)
Use a vacuum cleaner to suck up any loose metal particles.
Use anti-seize compound on the spark plug threads when installing, it will prevent "galling" as you are now experiencing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
I'm getting liquid wrench and will be replacing the plugs.

I checked the codes, got one... Code 36

I have a manual boost controller.

What can I do to fix this wastegate open or shortened issue?

If it is open, may seafoam spray?
If it shortened, maybe clean the connectors?



Thank you
 

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Is the Wastegate Solenoid electrical connector still plugged in?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
It's lame, but I have been trying to look for the solenoid and failed. It's tucked behind the intake tube, wiring harness and under the manifold I assume, so I am as of now not sure.

If you could tell me if it is closer to the driver or passenger side of the intake manifold please.

They really hidden the turbo on these motors.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I did follow the MBT vacuum hose and it plummets into the darkness that even with a flashlight I didn't see if it lead to the wastegate solenoid. I assume it does? Or is it to the wastegate the mechanical part?

Sorry, my knowledge on the placement and arrangement of the turbo is bad.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I guess the plan right now is to-

A- check the connection of the solenoid. If not reconnect and if it is, clean the connector leads.

B- see if there is something I can do if the wastegate is stuck open. Maybe actuate the manual gate arm to dislodge it as it probably has 30+ yrs of crud in it.

I have tried cleaning the MBT and it's vacuum hoses.

Result less shake at higher idle, more shake at lower idle.
 

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There are only two solenoids, Wastegate and Purge solenoids, both are located on the right side fender.

Motor vehicle Line Font Elbow Parallel
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I located the wastegate solenoid.
It had the two harnesses locked on fine and had two vacuum hoses on
I took each harness off and sprayed electronics cleaner on them and made sure they locked on positive.

I noticed today that the idle kicked down and was not sputtering.

But, when I press the gas up to 2k rpms, it is choppy. But once at 2k and held there, it is smooth.
So now it idles smooth, but chugs when gas is pressed. I wonder if the wastegate is starting to break loose.

So, with a whole bottle of Seafoam in the tank plusp I sprayed the intake with Seafoam, and the MBT vacuum hoses with Seafoam. Also each plug that came out, I sprayed Seafoam directly in the cylinders. Plus spritzed off the plugs to and made sure the plug wires were tight after it was all done.

One plug needs Liquid Wrench as I said, and I think I will get that today. One that plug comes out, the same cleaning will be done.

I am probably going to get a set of Denso plugs asap.

Should I gap them different since I have the intercooler and boost to 12psi?

I pondered why u am running rich for a while now.
Ok never changed the O2 sensor. Do you think that might be making the car run rich?

Thank you for your help.
 

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The gap on the spark plugs is .035, no need to change that, my car is 12 lbs. of boost from the factory and I have never had an ignition issue due to spark plugs,(unless they get fouled from a different issue) even when racing, I hit the traps in 3rd gear at 6000 RPM's at 12 lbs. of boost and never had an ignition misfire, there is no spark plug that is going to enhance performance, there has never been a dyno test that has showed increased HP/performance just from a spark plug change. (regardless what the manufacturers claim)
The original spark plug from the factory is Champion RN12YC, this is a Copper spark plug.
Copper is the best conductor of electricity, the downside is that copper is soft so the life expectancy of a copper plug is 20,000 - 25,000 miles before the center electrode wears enough to cause driveabilty issues.
Having said that, the only reason for Platinum or Iridium plugs is that they last longer without wear and that is important for emissions only, there is no performance increase.
All spark plugs have a copper core, platinum or iridium are only used on the tip to retard wear, platinum/iridium do not conduct electricity as well as copper.
On our cars all electricity grounds at the spark plug so only a single platinum plug is needed, only the center electrode wears, double platinum plugs are used on vehicles with direct ignition systems where half the cylinders are + (Start at the coil, ground at the plug) and half are - (Start at the plug, ground at the coil), In this case both the outer and center electrodes will wear.
Again, there is no difference in performance with any of these plugs.

You stated "But, when I press the gas up to 2k rpms, it is choppy. ", if you are doing this with the car not moving (no load) there is no boost and the wastegate and turbo have nothing to do with your driveabilty issues.

The O2 Sensor is a "fuel trimmer", it does not have the authority to make the car run black rich, yes the O2 could be faulty, average life expectancy for a heated O2 sensor is 50,000 miles, the most noticeable symptoms of a faulty O2 sensor are poor fuel economy and higher CO emissions, however, as previously stated, the O2 reads the amount of oxygen in the exhaust stream, not the amount of fuel and many things can create a lean/rich condition that have the O2 sensor latched rich/lean.

As far as diagnostics, see Post #2.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I took it around the neighborhood today. Rough acceleration. I do isn't try to get boost to get past 0.

I mean, acceleration is very bad and makes me worry. I didn't push the gas much either.
 

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It could be numerous things, a logical diagnostic sequence will uncover the cause of the driveability issue.
Let me know when you are ready to begin.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I got code 36. The wastegate is either open or shortened. I hope shortened, it is easy to replace that solenoid.

The diag stuff I need a mechanic as I don't have the know how. Nor the tools.

I took the EGR off and shook it, it isn't stuck. So one less thing that this could be.

If the engine is toast, it's probably going on eBay as a project car for sale.

Since I cannot seem to fix this at home with all the stuff I've tried, im probably going to drop it off to get a mechanic to diagnose it. If it's a low cost fix I'll probably go ahead and have them do it. If it's $500 plus to fix it then I'm probably just selling the car as a project. I already posted the car for sale here but I had no takers. I already had somebody fix the fuel leak and the power window. So there goes all that money, if I don't get this thing fixed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Don't get me wrong, if this was my only ride I would just get it fixed and not worry too much. I'm realistic, I know this is an over 30-year-old car, so stuff is going to happen. It's just unfortunate that I had this car that I thought I had all the important things fixed and then one day the car just decides to pull a rebellion. Aggravating...
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I finally got some liquid wrench type lube and got the 2nd spark plug out....it was a surprise what I had found.

The plug comes out and it looked nothing like the other three. It looked CLEAN. Used, but clean!

It makes me wonder. The others showed signs of exposure to a rich condition. So, I wonder if the second injector is either dead or clogged.

If clogged, the Seafoam should unclog it....hopefully.

If dead, I might be able to remove the plug wires off the second plug to see if there is any difference. If it runs the same, the injector is either dead or the wiring harness I had someone work on is shorting out.

I checked the connector to the injector and it seemed fine. I may unplug it and clean the connector with electronics cleaning spray.

As for the stuck open or dead wastegate solenoid, no update.

The only other update is that the engine was the smoothest since the problems started. But rough when I pressed the gas a little.At idle it was like there was no problem. Frustrating.
 

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Unfortunately, not myself or anyone else can really help you since you are unable to perform any diagnostics on your own.

Be sure to apply a thin coat of Anti-Seize lubricant to the spark plug threads before reinstalling them.

FYI...
I would not put much trust in gasoline additives, most are just "snake oil" and contain basically the same detergents that are already in gasoline.
Other than "GM Top End Cleaner" from years ago the only place I have ever seen any positive real life results is on the back of the can of the additive, those parts pictured all look nice and pretty.
If you want to clean your injectors and combustion chambers properly you need to use a direct cleaning system where the vehicle is running on the cleaner only (at the correct pressure), not the vehicles fuel system.
This is what we use...

You can also pay a shop to do this, make sure they are reputable, no chain stores.

The only way to know for sure if you have a clogged/restricted injector is to perform an "injector balance test" which requires the use of a fuel pressure gauge and injector pulse tester, I have owned one since 1988.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Unfortunately, not myself or anyone else can really help you since you are unable to perform any diagnostics on your own.

Be sure to apply a thin coat of Anti-Seize lubricant to the spark plug threads before reinstalling them.

FYI...
I would not put much trust in gasoline additives, most are just "snake oil" and contain basically the same detergents that are already in gasoline.
Other than "GM Top End Cleaner" from years ago the only place I have ever seen any positive real life results is on the back of the can of the additive, those parts pictured all look nice and pretty.
If you want to clean your injectors and combustion chambers properly you need to use a direct cleaning system where the vehicle is running on the cleaner only (at the correct pressure), not the vehicles fuel system.
This is what we use...

You can also pay a shop to do this, make sure they are reputable, no chain stores.

The only way to know for sure if you have a clogged/restricted injector is to perform an "injector balance test" which requires the use of a fuel pressure gauge and injector pulse tester, I have owned one since 1988.
Unfortunately, not myself or anyone else can really help you since you are unable to perform any diagnostics on your own.

Be sure to apply a thin coat of Anti-Seize lubricant to the spark plug threads before reinstalling them.

FYI...
I would not put much trust in gasoline additives, most are just "snake oil" and contain basically the same detergents that are already in gasoline.
Other than "GM Top End Cleaner" from years ago the only place I have ever seen any positive real life results is on the back of the can of the additive, those parts pictured all look nice and pretty.
If you want to clean your injectors and combustion chambers properly you need to use a direct cleaning system where the vehicle is running on the cleaner only (at the correct pressure), not the vehicles fuel system.
This is what we use...

You can also pay a shop to do this, make sure they are reputable, no chain stores.

The only way to know for sure if you have a clogged/restricted injector is to perform an "injector balance test" which requires the use of a fuel pressure gauge and injector pulse tester, I have owned one since 1988.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I was hoping there was a trick to get the wastegate to close. Perhaps an entire bottle of cleaner of some kind that is turbo friendly to unstuck the thing.

But if the solenoid is shorted out, I'm not sure what I can do since it may take a mechanic to get it checked. What is bad, is the part probably costs the same as getting a diagnostic on said part.

I am looking around for a wastegate/ purge solenoid. I seem to be only finding one or the other, not the dual solenoid like the car came with.

Do you have an idea why one injector looked much cleaner than the others?

I tried cleaning the EGR, mbc line, TB, solenoids and plugs... The car still chugs, but idles smooth.

My efforts helped one thing but not the main problem.

I agree that I probably won't solve this one without it getting checked out by a shop.

I appreciate the input.
 
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