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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Can any one help me identify if this is a T1 or T2?

My understanding is the difference is only the compressor housing and a notch in the turbine housing, and I'm pretty sure this is a T1 but want to confirm.

Gas Cylinder Machine Metal Auto part
 

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Old School Hot Rodder
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That is an early T1, maybe a 1984 as the wastegate system was completely mechanical on them. The same design turbo was used through 1987. It is referred to as a "draw through" as the throttle body is on the inlet side of the turbo.
 

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.. remember the 84-7 Turbo I Garrett/AiResearch can be "converted" to a "Turbo 2" by simply swapping the compressor housing,
or less optimally,
by bolting an adapter in place of the 90 degree outlet elbow the TI features
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Excellent, thanks a lot guys.

Are there any repro compressor housings? Or should I be looking for a used one? I saw the adapters on TU which look pretty awesome but I think my preference would be a whole housing as it gives me the impression that it would be stronger than an adapter.

For example I found compressor housing by Garrett, but they only appear to be hybrid T4 compressor housings you can bolt to a T3 turbine housing.


Obviously I would rebuild the turbo (or have it rebuilt more accurately) but would a housing such as this accomplish a similar goal as a T2 housing?

I also plan on massively intercooling before anyone points that part out....
 

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1984's have 2 nipples on the wastegate actuator and 1985-87 have one.

1984's were purely pneumatic and the rest were computer controlled pneumatic.

I think the notch was on the exhaust manifold.

Thanks
Randy
 

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well there are several options...
depending on budget, personal skills/connections, & where you're going with the project:

presuming the primary goal is to intercool,
and you wish a more user friendly compressor inlet to do that...
1. simplest, quickest: aftermarket or homemade "adapter" to replace the 90 degree elbow with a simple 'spout' ; simple bolt on.. strength of this part isn't a factor, your just attaching a rubber or silicone 2.5" inlet tube to it.. there is some flow reduction inherent with this solution but it's pretty negligible.. and could be minimized with a bit of die grinder work
2. OE '86-9 T2 compressor housing, this is a straightforward swap just a bit more complicated than (1)
3. mod the "T1" comp housing by TIG welding a short piece of thin wall 2.5" O.D. (or thereabouts) aluminum pipe in place of the 90 degree elbow
any of these solutions would also benefit by heavily porting the outlet spout of the comp housing

these choices all keep the stock turbo "size" ; if you wish more flow you could:
1. replce the .42 T3 compressor housing AND wheel with a better T3 , e.g. an 80's ford .59 or Buick GN, or Garrett/aftermarket e.g. "Super 60" .. this would likely require a rebalance and thus would be part of a 'rebuild'
2.replace the T3 comp housing, wheel, and backing plate with aftermarket/garrett "T4"

further, replacing the "TD pattern" .48 turbine housing with a "TD pattern" .63 will improve high-rpm flow and HP at the expense of a bit slower spool

and of course replacing the 2.25" 'Swingvalve' (exhaust outlet elbow) with the OE (rare) '89 only T2 2.5", or an aftermarket 2.5" or 3" SV (and accompanying downpipe) will make a Major improvement in overall flow

my self built turbo has the Ford .59 compressor side, the .63 turbine housing, and the OE 2.5" exhaust..
almost a "Super 60"... , plus lots of porting, and ceramic coating
 

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On the very first log I intercooled many years ago, I kept the old Draw through turbo intact.

I simply attached a 90 deg elbow to the original inlet without even clocking it.

Parts were scarce and turbo knowledge even scarcer.!!

It ran just as good as any proper conversion.

Thanks
Randy
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
That's a great deal of information to unpack, thanks for all the info. I'm relieved to know that the housing's strength is unaffected by the connection.

I'm leaning towards getting a pro to rebuild one but I might take a crack at it just for fun...
 

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...

For example I found compressor housing by Garrett, but they only appear to be hybrid T4 compressor housings you can bolt to a T3 turbine housing.


Obviously I would rebuild the turbo (or have it rebuilt more accurately) but would a housing such as this accomplish a similar goal as a T2 housing? ...
That link you attached is for a to4E housing. For that to work, you would need to have a matching backplate, 50 trim housing along with a 50 trim to4E compressor wheel. IMO, far too much compressor wheel for a stage I turbine. Can you say compressor surge?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
well there are several options...
depending on budget, personal skills/connections, & where you're going with the project:

presuming the primary goal is to intercool,
and you wish a more user friendly compressor inlet to do that...
1. simplest, quickest: aftermarket or homemade "adapter" to replace the 90 degree elbow with a simple 'spout' ; simple bolt on.. strength of this part isn't a factor, your just attaching a rubber or silicone 2.5" inlet tube to it.. there is some flow reduction inherent with this solution but it's pretty negligible.. and could be minimized with a bit of die grinder work
2. OE '86-9 T2 compressor housing, this is a straightforward swap just a bit more complicated than (1)
3. mod the "T1" comp housing by TIG welding a short piece of thin wall 2.5" O.D. (or thereabouts) aluminum pipe in place of the 90 degree elbow
any of these solutions would also benefit by heavily porting the outlet spout of the comp housing

these choices all keep the stock turbo "size" ; if you wish more flow you could:
1. replce the .42 T3 compressor housing AND wheel with a better T3 , e.g. an 80's ford .59 or Buick GN, or Garrett/aftermarket e.g. "Super 60" .. this would likely require a rebalance and thus would be part of a 'rebuild'
2.replace the T3 comp housing, wheel, and backing plate with aftermarket/garrett "T4"

further, replacing the "TD pattern" .48 turbine housing with a "TD pattern" .63 will improve high-rpm flow and HP at the expense of a bit slower spool

and of course replacing the 2.25" 'Swingvalve' (exhaust outlet elbow) with the OE (rare) '89 only T2 2.5", or an aftermarket 2.5" or 3" SV (and accompanying downpipe) will make a Major improvement in overall flow

my self built turbo has the Ford .59 compressor side, the .63 turbine housing, and the OE 2.5" exhaust..
almost a "Super 60"... , plus lots of porting, and ceramic coating
If I went from a TD turbine housing to the Ford turbine housing, is it just a matter of drilling and tapping one bolt on the manifold to get them to mate up? The SV and all else mounts up to the new turbine housing?

Does the .59 Ford compressor side use the same .48 stock backing plate?

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk
 

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If I went from a TD turbine housing to the Ford turbine housing, is it just a matter of drilling and tapping one bolt on the manifold to get them to mate up? The SV and all else mounts up to the new turbine housing?
sadly, it's not quite that ez,
I investigated this mainly because finding a .63 Ford/etc. turbine housing is relatively easy (e.g. M/T '83-6 TurboCoupes) ..
however in addition to the exhaust manifold mod of drilling /tapping (ps I think it's more than 1)
the 'swingvalve' bolt pattern is also different which forces you to use the Ford/etc. piece,
which uses a different style outlet - a simple flare not the ball/socket the TDs use)
for these reasons I focused on obtaining a TD .63 ...

HOWEVER there are many more options of exhaust outlet with the Ford/etc. turbine housing, including direct to 3" band clamp for the real High HP builds

Does the .59 Ford compressor side use the same .48 stock backing plate?
yes. it's a simple swap.
ideally you'd find a complete / assembled '83-6 Ford or equivalent so you can extract the rotating assembly and maintain the factory balance,,
then in theory you could swap that over and not need to re-balance

the turbo rebuild itself is quite straightforward:
dissassemble, clean, reassemble with new parts ..
the only specialty tool you need is a small pair of c-clip pliers or tiny needle nose pliers you may need to mod to work on the c-clips

however the saying is,
you can only rebuild a turbo that's operating properly ;)
otherwise there's something wrong that also needs fixed,
like an imbalance which causes oil seal failure AMHIK

also be aware our TDs use a different style of oil seals from ALL THE REST
so eBay kits won't have the right seal AMHIK

I got parts and service including balancing from Ron's turbo in Salt Lk City ..
great guy, SUPER knowledgeable, fair prices too..
but I think it's a "1-man shop" so turnaround may be slow..
 

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I think I got the rebuild kit for my 1989 T2 Garret from a company named Midwest Turbo. I had searched for rebuild kits, first for a 1989 T1 Mitsubishi I had and wanted to go through. After that I was looking at the T2 Garret for my LeBaron and found it had a noticeable amount of side play so ordered a kit for it. If I get a chance later I will see if their information is on the extra parts left over from the rebuilds. They were great, center housing on the Garret was oversize at the bearing bores and they could not match bearings. They sourced me a new center housing at a very reasonable cost.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I'm switching from a mitsu and since I have to source a new swing valve anyways, it actually sounds like I should just put the Ford turbine housing on. They seem easier to find and the swing valve assemblies are easier to find too, especially in the 3". Am I missing something or can it be that simple?

1) Rebuild my Garret T1 bearing assembly
2) slap on new compressor and Ford turbine housings with matching wheels
3) add a Ford swing valve w/ v-band
4) modify exhaust manifold to accept standard t3
5) redo the down pipe and exhaust for mandrel 3" all the way (was on my list anyways)
6) route intake piping, cal, fuel, etc

it seems easier to just go to the Ford setup unless your already plumbed up for a TD Garrett. Does this sound right?
 

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ok, we got to the 'where are you going' part..
and yes that plan makes sense to me..

yur turbo will be about as maxed out as a budget T3 can be..
and should support 275-300 hp of flow before you've maxed out the comp side..

imo, if you're shooting for more than that then you'll need a T3/4
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
imo, if you're shooting for more than that then you'll need a T3/4
I'm not having too much luck locating a Ford T3 assembly with the .63 ar, so I may have to get the balancing done anyways. I have a few more yards I can check tho. In that case it might be best to just follow your advice and go to the t4 comp side. Does that also use the same back plate? I saw the rebuild kit was slightly different for the t3/4, included some hold down brackets.

If t3/4, I was thinking a .60 w/ 57 trim with the Ford .63 hot side. Still budget but with a few more bucks thrown at it. Most of the parts I can source used and cheap....
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
That link you attached is for a to4E housing. For that to work, you would need to have a matching backplate, 50 trim housing along with a 50 trim to4E compressor wheel. IMO, far too much compressor wheel for a stage I turbine. Can you say compressor surge?
I think you actually answered my question before I knew I had it. Looks like the t4 comp housing has a different back plate
 

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I think you actually answered my question before I knew I had it. Looks like the t4 comp housing has a different back plate
Yes you got it. IMO, and stage III turbine combined with a 57 trim wheel is WAY too big for a street driven 8V 2.2/2.5. That turbo could support almost 500 HP. 500 HP 2.2/2.5 and the word "budget" doesn't go hand in hand. (lol). When it comes to lots of things (like turbos and camshafts), bigger doesn't mean necessarily mean better. If your goals are that high, you better have a very big budget.

With the turbo you're talking about, you will see usable boost around 4000-4500 RPM. Unless you have a highly modified cylinder head with much bigger camshaft, intake, exhaust, injectors, fuel system, custom ECU programing, larger intercooler, etc.,etc. etc. your all done RPM wise by about 6000 (even less with a 2.5). That gives you about 1500-2000 RPM of usable RPM. That will make a horrible combo for anything that ever sees the street.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
That will make a horrible combo for anything that ever sees the street.
That makes sense. I've been collecting pieces for a while and have a complete fuel system, intake, and have everything to do my own cals. Exhaust will go in with the turbo but I wanted a little more than detobias said with the t3 only. Hoping to get around 300-315 HP. Maybe there is a middle ground like a 50 trim on the compressor? I also assume if I keep the stage 3 .63 turbine coupled with 3" exhaust I could get a few more hp with reasonable spool lag, or should that be reeled in a little for street use too? Or would your recommendation just to stay with the t3 compressor housing size?
 

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Just remember you need to machine the housing(s) to match the size wheel your running. This applies for both the turbine side and the compressor side. A 60 trim t3 compressor wheel would be the next bump up from stock 50 trim. That flows around 34lbs/min. Stock flows around 30/lbs/min. Then a Turbonetics s-60 wheel comes in around 36lbs min. That will support 300 WHP but barely. After that you need to bump up to the next bigger frame turbo for compressor wheels. There are many variations of the s-70 compressor wheel. What I call a s-70 wheel is a "S" wheel from the to4B family. That flows just a tad more than the s-60 wheel at 37lbs/min. (rated in its native housing). Next up is the larger (major) OD 46 trim wheel from the to4E family. That flows 41lbs/min in it's native housing. Less if you stuff it in a T3 housing. That wheel is substantially heavier than the stock t3 50 trim wheel. Turbonetics has their "super" versions of these wheels hence the name. They will flow a bit more than their Garrett counterparts, but require housing and sometimes the backing plate to be machined exclusively for that combo. The Turbonetics wheels are always WAY more expensive than the Garrett counterparts. Next up in the old school compressor wheels is the to4E 50 trim with a flow of around 47lbs/min. Don't try stuffing that wheel in the T3 housing. Not a good combo. Stick with to4B or to4E housings, if using that family of compressor wheels. IMO, that is really more than you need for a 8V engine, unless you are REALLY pushing the envelope.

IMO, about the biggest flowing compressor wheel I would run in with a stock stage I turbine shaft would be a wheel that flows around 37-40lbs/min. Even that is pushin it. Clipping the wheels (done correctly) will make them flow more, but at a cost of spooling up later. I'm not a huge fan of clipped wheels, but I can see a time and a place where they can be beneficial. Ideally you want the compressor wheels inducer and the turbine wheels exducer to be close in size to one another. It usually results in a turbo that works well (if sized correctly for your application). Stray to far from that, and your looking at a turbo with a small powerband where it is really efficient. Surging can come into play when you stray.

Now, many turbo shops are stuffing newer more modern designed compressor wheels in the old school turbos. The Garrett 2860 and 2871 wheels combined with a clipped or modified stage 1 turbine is a popular choice. The billet compressor wheel can flow around 40 lbs/min. Easily enough turbo for 300-350 HP with pretty good usable RPM range. Forward Motion's turbo guy has been putting these combos together. Heard good things about them.

I like the stage II turbine (or Turbonetics F1-54) combined with the old school 46 trim or 50 trim to4e wheels if pushin the envelope on a TD street car. In either the Garrett or Turbonetics "super" wheels. That is enough turbo to get a light TD comfortably into the 11's (with supporting mods) and still be livable on the street.

Attached are some common compressor wheels Chris from TU posted many years ago.
Automotive tire Font Automotive wheel system Circle Auto part
 
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