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Discussion Starter #3
Ok . Just watch the myth busters video. I was think more of improving mpg not replacing gas all together. Also they used a fairly rudimentary fuel cell. I will get on computer and post some of the things they have out now as far as more advanced fuel cells and electronics. I am by no means sold on this plus there are other fun things to do with fuel cells .
 

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Have Fun, that is what experimenting is all about! Don't expect better gas mileage with a lower cost of operation. It takes more energy to produce the hydrogen than you can get back from burning it again, the two laws that I list in my post above always wins.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Just a side note here real quick.
The use of HHO in your fuel system is supposed to cause your fuel to burn faster and more efficiently.( Flame propagation? ) This in turn means less fuel is need to create the same power .
So here are the kits that are provided today.HHO Hydrogen Generator DC3000 Dry Cell Kit Complete w/ PWM, Quad Narrowband EFIE | eBay
And here is an example of what PM and Myth Busters used for thier tests.
PM magazine
Water Car Test - HHO Shows Why You Can't Run Cars on Water
Myth Busters
https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_ylt=A0LEViXo6i5Y_G0A1fAnnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTEybXR1bWNwBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDQjI2OTFfMQRzZWMDc2M-?p=Myth+Busters+Hydrgen&fr=yhs-mozilla-004&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-004#id=1&vid=5cc165d12a084285bcaeb5b76524a8e6&action=view
Its obvious that they were using some home brew systems.

In today's systems it seems as though people have made strides in the electronics end of HHO. This being said these electronic gadgets added to systems could be whats changing mileage more than the HHO gas.
The pro HHO side states that HHO did not work in the past because you were adding a hydrogen/oxygen gas to your fuel causing o2s to see a lean condition in you exhaust from engine( Due to the added oxygen from the HHO gas) in turn causing cars computer to add more fuel.
This of course would not increase fuel mileage.
So these guys have taken a page or two from present day modified car ecms to adjust and or monitor map/maf , O2s and even CTS out puts to keep car from seeing lean and keeping ECM from adding more fuel to compensate.

If this is how it all works then it would mean more power at less throttle.

As it stands now though, I need to look into this more. I need to find out if there is some third party test on these more advanced systems. The two tests listed above are all I have watch so far and they were with Dr. Frankenstein style HHO systems straight off the prop shelf.
 

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Hello 89TonaVa,
Please keep us posted on your progress. I think it is great that you are experimenting.
Sorry that I sound a bit skeptic, I am a instrumentation scientist and this process I feel is thin on the favorable thermodynamics side of the equation.
On the other hand, sometimes you need to go against conventional wisdom to make great strides in technology. I wish you success
Keep up the experimenting!
 

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Tona. Immerse yourself in Papp Plasma Theory. It's real. Not bullshit. He was generating like 800 lb ft of torque from a PLC controlled two cylinder in the early 70s.

The Papp effect (excited plasma in a mixture of ionized noble gasses) is what causes the gain in fuel economy, not the hydrogen burning. People can quote conservation of energy all day long...

Feel free to call me a crazy person. All of you are working for big oil for free when you discount these phenomena.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Ok I have forgotten to list the limited sources I have used so far and will do so now. For one to give credit where credit is due. Two . I am going to start spitting out some info and specs and about how these fuel cells are rated.
1- The Ugly Cruel Honest Truth about HHO
THE "HONEST" TRUTH ABOUT HHO-HYDROGEN-GENERATORS- DRY CELLS- EFIE'S-CC PWM-KITS | eBay
2- A limitless amount of You Tube videos that have not been much help as of yet.

The first is an E book that is more or less a very informative set of papers with explanations of how fuel cells are rated. And whats need to really make them work for a fuel additive for fossil fuel engines. This book is written by a self professed builder of the most efficient HHO fuel cells out. So it is a bit of a testimonial of his own products as well.
If you want to read it I can e-mail it to you so you wont have to pay the 1.99 USD to get it. (The author encourages this practice.)
 

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I know in diesels they have done similar, using propane to help propagate a more complete burn.

The other thing to do if you want better mileage is ditch the stock engine management system, we used megasquirts in our race cars, my son moved one to his street car for fun, more seat of the pants power and a 20% plus increase in fuel mileage. Stock or even off the shelf ecms are very safe, so by being more aggressive and tuning to the car/engine/mods you have you can get much more.
 

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Chromguy. Had you never seen anything about plasma expansion?

I think the most refined version has shielding in the cylinders and in the controller. The cylinder assemblies are amazing.

An old skeptic unplugged Papp's engine controller during an early demonstration and the motor overrevved and blew up. Killing one of the bystanders!

There are letters from several Navy admirals posted online, commending his work. They probably refer to weaponized versions of this technology.

The one documented weapons test was a failure. It exploded also. No magnetic field to control the excited plasma.

The key is the magnetic field. It only allows the expansion to move in one axis. Forcing the piston down. The timing was crucial, as the plasma has to contract for the piston to return being that it is a closed system.(zero valves) The key to unlocking all of that power potential was always radioactivity. His ionizing anode was filled with a mixture of radioactive elements. Not enough to be dangerous to a person standing next to the motor when the cylinder was closed. Using this system to provide free power would basically bring major businesses to their knees. Oil? Shit who needs it. A generator making free power can power your Tesla. (example) No fuel!!

The only reason Joseph Papp wasn't murdered or jailed like the other guys was that he was always willing to play ball with the government.
 

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Wish I was a millionaire. I would team up with Bob Rohner before he dies and try to build another two cylinder. Tom Rohner has passed away. I think he programmed the logic for the PLC.
 
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