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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
That' may be an odd question, but it has often be asked what is my HP goal.

It is difficult for me to give a number, if the engine I'm building can produce 400WHP why ask for only 300 ?

It is however easier for me to give some limitations and datas.

The car : 1989 Dodge shadow
https://www.turbododge.com/forums/f1/f191/463001-louiss-1989-red-chrysler-es-project.html

The engine : 2.5L CB with :
- stage 3 TIII head (Lonewolf)
- FWD adjustable cam gears
- big plenum intake
- ported exhaust manifold
- HE351 turbo
- venolia forged pistons
- FWD H beam rods
- ARP studs
- cometic HG
- 1080 spearco FMIC

The trans :
I have several A-568 trans (stock), that I could upgrade with an LSD
I also have a completely rebuilt A-413 tranny "with Peloquin differential, billet A-904 input shaft from FWD Motion with special order Frank Lupo race converter to match and a reverse manual valve body".

The use :
only street use
I want to be faster than the audi and BMW with 2.0L and 3.0L engines which are pretty fast.
May be they don't have 400WHP but the other parameters (trans, weight, spool, torque, …) make them faster.
In Europe we have many diesel engines which have many torque.
For instance I also own a 300m with a 2.7L (which is not a fast car but still has 204HP engine), yesterday while climbing a mountain at wot, I was overtaken by a (heavy) Mercedes 4x4 which was climbing like a rocket.

Power :
Below what diesel engines look like (from an Audi A6) :
diplacement : 1968 cm3
power : 190 HP @ 3800-4200  tr/mn
torque : 400 Nm @ 1750 -3000 tr/mn
max speed : 235 km/h
0-100 km/h : 7.4 s

displacement : 2967 cm3
power : 286 HP @ 3500-4000  tr/mn
torque : 620 Nm @ 2250-3000 tr/mn
max speed : 250 km/h
0-100 km/h : 5.2  s

I know that torque breaks part while power not (though big power means high rpm that a 2.5L doesn't like) but I'm looking for torque for instant overtake rather than power.
I want also very fast accelerations from 0 to 130 km/h (which is the max speed here)

I will not use the car everyday, only for weekend for very little miles (max 1200 km every year) but I do not want repair my car every months, I would like it to be reliable

Hope this help giving me advices and HP goal which will allow me to choose the missing parts.
 

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First I would like to make a statement; everyone knows horsepower and less understand torque. Since everyone knows HP, it is an easy question for people to answer. Some even say they would rather HP than torque, perhaps what they really want is to maintain the torque at higher rpms. Let me explain.
Simply put horsepower is only a calculated number from torque, no more..no less. HP = torque (at rpm) X rpm / 5252 . Why 5252??? read here https://auto.howstuffworks.com/question622.htm
So the HP at 5252 rpm of all engines is the torque at 5252 rpm by definition. We have an engine with 300ft-lbs torque at 5252 rpm so the HP is 300. If this magic engine's torque could be 300ft-lbs torque at 10504 (5252 x 2) rpm the engine would have 600 HP!! We know this is difficult in the real world with our engines as we are limited how much air we can get inside the cylinders especially with a 8V. I just want to show you HP is just a number calculated by math from torque. I am all in for good torque at higher rpms.
 

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What octane fuel are you going to run?

You have defined your turbo and components, they will all make a certain amount of power on a certain timing vs octane scale.

Also, what size in and out on that I/C? 2 1/2"?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
chromguy, I know this, but when people talk about torque, that generally means torque at lower RPM like diesel engines.

I have the feeling that to beat modern cars you must have a much more powerful engine mainly because new cars have little lag and modern trans (8 speeds robotised)

Shadow, I will use the highest quality fuel commonly available here, which is called "super 98", but I don't think it has this level of octane. So it is not a race fuel. I can add octane booster bottles that I have, since I will not use it every day. That is interesting to link the fuel with the power.
I don't know the compression ratio I will have using venolia pistons, cometic HG and TIII head

Yes the FMIC has 2.5" openings, but I can change it if there is a gain to do it (like using a bigger T/B)

I even have a set of 4 bolt main caps but I can't find here someone who could match them to the block
 

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Looks like Super 98 is equivalent to 93 octane. I'm going to guess you will be able to run somewhere around 20 psi (possibly 22-23 if cal is not too aggressive) which should equate to 350-380WHP with the Holset. (possibly more, Or less depending on your finished build and tuning capability)

I/C; If it's the one I'm thinking of it's a great flowing unit, but not the greatest at Cooling. (very short pass) This could effect how much boost you can run on pump fuel.

2 1/2" pipes are fine for you, just stick with 58mm TB and everything's happy ;)

For a street only application wanting the most TQ and drivability I would be running the Stock intake mani, lightly ported and port matched to head and TB.

Also keep in mind, most ruin a TIII head by over porting (hog wild) TIII needs Quality of porting, really don't need to go crazy anywhere as that head already flows well.

Stock cams as well for best low end TQ

You are going to want a very well built free flowing exhaust with that turbo. Cork the exhaust after doing everything else right and you'll pay for it with slower spool and lack of performance.

Same on intake side. That turbo needs to Breath!
 

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defining goals is easy.
when people say they want XXX HP it really normally means only a few things.


#1 someone else with similar parts made that power and they want to match it.
Jonny made XXX HP With these parts. i want to make that also.


#2 they have a dyno "number " goal. they want to hit for bragging rights.
I want to see the dyno break 300HP .



#3 they want to beat a XXX car.. and it will take certain HP to beat it.
My friends cousins aunt has a XXX and i want to beat it.



#4 they have a 1/4 mile time they want to acheive and document. and need XXX HP to meet that.
I want to run a 12.99 or faster.. with my weight i need XXX HP to hit that.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
chromguy, I do not know anything about it, that may be for later if needed.

Shadow thanks a lot for your advices, as I'm lacking experience and can only assemble parts and hope they will work together.
I will follows your advices.
For the head it was ported by Lonewolf who had good reputation here, so I believe in the job he has done.

Do you know who can make a calibration for it ?

BTW, Harry made 390WHP with a 2.2L and a 8V slighty ported head, that show how far he can assemble and tune his engine.

@ masterjr3333 : that makes sence
 

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Shadow thanks a lot for your advices, Do you know who can make a calibration for it ?
I have only ever used FWD Performance cals for the TIII's and they always worked flawlessly.

BTW, Harry made 390WHP with a 2.2L and a 8V slighty ported head, that show how far he can assemble and tune his engine.
With the parts list you have you could make 500+WHP.

Everything is relative;

Relative to boost pr

Relative to octane

Relative to Timing

Relative to parts selected and Most important.....

Relative to attention to detail putting it all together and being Patient!

How many have rushed and burned themselves down after spending years to put something together...….
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I agree about what you wrote, I wish I could have here shops like you have in the US to help and tune my engine rather than working alone.

I will try to ask Cindy if she can do the work, but it is rather difficult to join her by email, I'm still waiting her answer for a new batch of parts I need in order to restore the head.
Previous command took months to be honored...
 

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I agree about what you wrote, I wish I could have here shops like you have in the US to help and tune my engine rather than working alone.

I will try to ask Cindy if she can do the work, but it is rather difficult to join her by email, I'm still waiting her answer for a new batch of parts I need in order to restore the head.
Previous command took months to be honored...
She is more active on Facebook.She prefers a telephone call rather than email but you could try FB messenger.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
My mistake Harry, may be I made a mix with your previous setup.
That's still insane power
 

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Your recollection of my setup is a bit too optimistic.

Heavy ported 782 head with biggest intake/exhaust valves that the cylinder head will fit and only 367whp with E54.
Still impressive for an 8v :)
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Shadow,

What size of injectors should I look for ?
Are +40 enough for the setup you defined before ?

When you order a custom calibrations, what datas do you have to provide :
- displacement,
- head,
- trans (manual/auto),
- injectors size,
- fuel pressure ?
- max psi,
- ?????
 

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Shadow,

What size of injectors should I look for ?
Are +40 enough for the setup you defined before ?

When you order a custom calibrations, what datas do you have to provide :
- displacement,
- head,
- trans (manual/auto),
- injectors size,
- fuel pressure ?
- max psi,
- ?????
As long as you have a larger than stock fuel rail the +40's should be fine for your needs.

What is your time frame for this build?

Who's doing the rewire on the Shadow it's going in?

Who's assembling the engine and are they capable of degreeing cams properly?
 
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