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Inevitable Daytona 3.0 Rebuild

351 Views 7 Replies 5 Participants Last post by  glrcng
After 242k miles and nearly 6 years of my ownership, my '91 Daytona has finally shown the signs of engine bearing failure. I was pretty upset when I discovered this but I'm now determined to keep one of our little cars alive. I'm preparing myself for the lengthy task of yanking the motor out and rebuilding it myself but I have a lot of questions about pretty much everything, from how to prolong the inevitable to how to make sure the tolerances are good. So sit back, grab a cold snack, and brace yourself for a loooooong post of me explaining what's going on and what I'm looking to do.

Symptoms
I changed my oil 2 weeks ago and discovered glitter in the oil, as well as some bits in the drain pan. I hoped it was a contaminated drain pan, as the last time I used it was to drain my power steering pump which was full of metal. Cutting open the filter yielded the same glitter oil and 3 or 4 flecks of metal in the filter paper, so it has to be from the engine. Oil pressure was still perfect as per usual. The valvetrain was a little noisy because it was a little low before I changed it, but after fresh oil it sounded normal. I used a wrench to listen to the bottom end and heard no hints of knock or grinding. I inspected the valvetrain through the fill cap and the cam lobes and rocker rollers were pristine, so I doubt it's top end related. My guess is rod bearings wearing out from a combination of age/mileage, using 5w-30 in Florida summers, and spirited driving.

Now I admit that I don't drive conservatively. I do always allow the thing to warm up until the temp needle starts to move before driving, and I make sure the thermostat is open before exceeding 2500 rpm. But once it's fully warmed up, I do eventually get to the point of revving out to 5200 or 5500 more frequently than I probably should. It's impossible for me to resist, the car is too much fun to drive. Definitely does not help the situation though.

What To Do Before Rebuilding
I am an engineering student and I have an internship beginning Monday (the 22nd) but I do have alternative transportation from a family member if I need be. My plan was to drive it for a week and change the oil again, then move to either 5w-40, 10w-40, or 10w-50 oil to keep the engine alive until I can get all the parts and tools lined up. But ultimately if there's metal in the oil, it's only a matter of time until catastrophic failure. If thicker oil isn't a good idea, what is the best course of action for prolonging the inevitable?

Rebuilding
I do understand the internal structure of piston engines and I have disassembled an engine (a Honda D16) with a friend before, so I believe I have enough knowledge to tackle the project. I also have all 3 factory service manuals and the Chilton manual so all the tolerances and torque specs should be readily available. However, I don't know the best brands offered for new parts or exactly how deep the damage goes. On one hand, it could be a simple job of new bearings, bolts, and gaskets. Worst case I discover damage other things and need new rods, pistons, and even machine work to the block and/or crankshaft. I'd rather overprepare with the parts and return stuff than wait on stuff I didn't order. Obviously I need the necessary tools for checking clearances and tolerances, which I don't have. Which tools will I need for this? I've heard plastigauge can work, but I'm not sure I can trust that if I'm trying to make the engine go another 100k miles. I do have torque wrenches for the 50-250 lb-ft and 20-200 in-lb ranges.

If I'm fully disassembling the engine, I may as well do everything I can within reason. I'd like to rebuild the oil pump to be safe, but I'm not sure where to get the parts. All new external seals, valve springs, valve stem seals, and even new exhaust manifolds (I believe the rear one has a crack, a ticking comes and goes). I'm not sure if I should get new pistons and rods though. It would make sense to do them even if it's not necessary, but I'm not sure how much they cost.

If I am way in over my head, I'll try to find a shop to handle the rebuild. But I would much prefer DIYing the project so I can learn (and saving money is nice). If you know of a engine building shop in Florida worth recommending, just let me know.

Reinstallation and Break-In
Once the rebuild is done, I know the engine has to be broken in with special oil and heat cycles. But I'm not sure exactly what the process is or what stuff to use. Obviously with revs, something like a strict 2500 rpm limit is a good idea for several hundred miles, and heat cycling a couple times before driving is a good idea to let the head gaskets and rings settle in. But beyond that I don't know.

Closing
Sorry for my long-winded monologue, I just like to provide as much detail as possible and some of my thought process just in case I'm heading in the wrong direction. One of the things I'm considering for the rebuild is a baffled oil pan but I haven't found an off-the-shelf one. I would love to try autocross, but I know hard right hand corners could oil starve the engine because of the sump and pan design.
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Why not just find a low mileage 3.0, reseal it and get another 100k plus...

That's a weekend job vrs possibly months in machine shop time.
If you are keeping this car and plan on working on it yourself, you need/should have, these...
Why not just find a low mileage 3.0, reseal it and get another 100k plus...
If I'm being honest, I don't feel like that's the right option for me. Finding an engine will be hard enough, but with my luck the seller would be dishonest and I'd end up in the same place after a month. I do plan on calling local machine shops and mechanics BEFORE I start so I know how busy they are. Plus I'm stubborn and I wanna get my hands dirty and learn the whole process. I do plan on building performance engines for other projects in the future...

you need/should have, these...
I do have all 3 FSMs on hand, as well as the Chilton manual. All 4 came with the car, thanks to my grandfather. Been looking at the tolerances they list and my guess is to tolerance stuff to be in the middle of the listed ranges? They also don't really give much of a break in procedure aside from oil change intervals and avoiding high cruising speeds and full throttle until the rings seat. No info about oil types or weights, what to do on first fire up, or whether or not to build oil pressure on the starter alone before letting it run.

Also the official FSM lists plastigauge as the actual way to check the bearing tolerances... Is it really accurate enough?

As far as parts go, I found this kit:
Other forums said the quality was good, anyone on here used it or know of a better one?
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If I'm being honest, I don't feel like that's the right option for me. Finding an engine will be hard enough, but with my luck the seller would be dishonest and I'd end up in the same place after a month. I do plan on calling local machine shops and mechanics BEFORE I start so I know how busy they are. Plus I'm stubborn and I wanna get my hands dirty and learn the whole process. I do plan on building performance engines for other projects in the future...


I do have all 3 FSMs on hand, as well as the Chilton manual. All 4 came with the car, thanks to my grandfather. Been looking at the tolerances they list and my guess is to tolerance stuff to be in the middle of the listed ranges? They also don't really give much of a break in procedure aside from oil change intervals and avoiding high cruising speeds and full throttle until the rings seat. No info about oil types or weights, what to do on first fire up, or whether or not to build oil pressure on the starter alone before letting it run.

Also the official FSM lists plastigauge as the actual way to check the bearing tolerances... Is it really accurate enough?

As far as parts go, I found this kit:
Other forums said the quality was good, anyone on here used it or know of a better one?
Yes but then your car is down for months. If you daily it now and don't have other wheels. Find a used one they are out there and not expensive and rebuild yours when you've got the time?

I've built a few engines waiting around for parts is friggen boring when you could be driving.
Two options that will make the process MUCH easier for you:
1.) Go find another engine from a reputable salvage yard to swap while you rebuild yours.
2.) Run 20W-50 oil in your engine and stop revving it so hard while you rebuild a used engine to put in when it is ready.

I totally get wanting to rebuild your engine just so you can say that you did it and it's the original engine. But rebuilding it WILL take you quite a while, and there are way fewer GOOD machine shops around that there used to be. And most of them have quite a backlog, especially if they are GOOD shops. A used engine for this is not particularly expensive ($300-$500 is common). It is an easy engine to swap. The later model they are, the better the engines were. The early ones had issues with valve guides sliding down in the head until the stem oil seals came off, then they SMOKED and smelled BAD. The newer versions had a snap ring on the valve guide to prevent it moving. A used engine with new gaskets and seals and water pump and timing belt will serve you very well and you will have all the time in the world to rebuild your engine RIGHT, and still be able to use your car. And when you are done, you will have a perfectly good back-up engine for when you break the original one from over revving it.
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Two options that will make the process MUCH easier for you:
1.) Go find another engine from a reputable salvage yard to swap while you rebuild yours.
2.) Run 20W-50 oil in your engine and stop revving it so hard while you rebuild a used engine to put in when it is ready.

I totally get wanting to rebuild your engine just so you can say that you did it and it's the original engine. But rebuilding it WILL take you quite a while, and there are way fewer GOOD machine shops around that there used to be. And most of them have quite a backlog, especially if they are GOOD shops. A used engine for this is not particularly expensive ($300-$500 is common). It is an easy engine to swap. The later model they are, the better the engines were. The early ones had issues with valve guides sliding down in the head until the stem oil seals came off, then they SMOKED and smelled BAD. The newer versions had a snap ring on the valve guide to prevent it moving. A used engine with new gaskets and seals and water pump and timing belt will serve you very well and you will have all the time in the world to rebuild your engine RIGHT, and still be able to use your car. And when you are done, you will have a perfectly good back-up engine for when you break the original one from over revving it.
Quit making sense.
I have to agree, get the spare, put it in, then build away. I just spent a full year and 2 weeks with my engine out and at the machine shop, and you will have a ton more fun driving that Daytona and rebuilding your engine at the same time, and owning a spare later bagged up on an engine stand.

Just collecting the right parts today takes months. Not sorry I did it, but the length of my project is 16 months now. Jan 10, 2022 I pulled it out, and finally raced it last weekend, but that engine spent almost 93K miles never going over 5,600 RPM, and hit 7K in 1st on the 3rd 8th mile pass. I only shifted and lifted, because I ran out of racetrack.. it wasn't done eating yet.

Do listen to those that know, you can rebuild it, but it takes time and money. I spent lots of both.
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