[arieskcar]

I still plan to get the 16v heads looked at, but due to a deficit of parts, the best chance to get two running Spirit's is an 8v setup in one and a 16v in the other. I need to get the block decked regardless, and I'm expecting the overall project to take a year. In the meantime, my goal is to have an 8v setup that exceeds the HP of a stock 16v with as much MOPAR parts as possible.

@unstable bob I've thought about it, but it comes down to what I want the final product to be. My first choice would be to stay as close to an original Lotus configuration as possible. Between these two cars, I believe I can make one very true Spirit R/T, and the other car is going to be my personal dream car...not necessarily original but very Shelby in "spirit". I'm very interested in the 2.4 configuration, but maybe not for these cars.

@arieskcar Maybe more than 3 bolts. ;-) But yeah, I've always shied away from macro moves, and I'm glad I finally did this. Also, I know there's a lot of hate for the Mitsubishi turbo here, but I really think Chrysler was right to choose it for the mid-power builds. I want over 200HP, but I don't want it to take so much work to build up boost. The LeBaron, for all of its faults, had practically no turbo lag! I threw a cheap G-valve on it, and I couldn't believe how fast it made power. The Spirit (and New Yorker) take work to spool up. I'm not driving any of these cars down the 1320. I'm taking off at a green light, merging onto I-81 or I-95, and just generally having a lot of fun. 15PSI seems to be a breeze for the Mitsu, and I imagine it would be reliable to 18 or so PSI. I know I have a completely different type of luck from the rest of the universe, but almost every single Garrett turbo I've had was bad, and only one Mitsubishi ever gave me trouble (and it still worked reliably). One thing I'm really curious about is to see if two stock IC's can be placed side by side next to a Honda Civic radiator. If so, I think 18PSI with a TE04H and 8v with a moderately opened exhaust could be a fun daily driver. Thanks to Cindy, the upgrade path is very simple. It's not the legendary Lotus head, but I'd be proud to drive it anyway.

You should see the garret on my 2.5 Daytona it spools up just as fast as the mitsu on a 2.2. The mitsu on a 2.5 runs out of breath after 12psi.
The garret on a 2.2 is kinda laggy that's why I like 2.5's
My 2.2 mitsu pulls fast but I want more 2.5 garret setups. Way more power and quickspool.
Here is a 2.2 forged crank and a 2.5 crank I have by the door.

You can see the 2.5 rod journals are further than the mains so there is more leverage/stroke for a 2.5 to push exhaust out the port and spool the turbo faster.

 

[benvanderjagt]

@arieskcar Your ability to instantly respond to any post authoritatively and with photos never ceases to amaze me.

Is the TE04H usually so badly hamstrung? I pushed 15 easily on the Shadow, and the one of the LeBaron does 14 pretty consistently. Gary Donovan's site suggests it's good up to about 20, though he bashes it every chance he can. Just some quick-n-dirty estimates anyway: T2 setup at 12PSI on a 2.2 does 174HP. The same setup at 15PSI should be roughly 200HP. A 2.5 should be roughly 8% higher HP, all else being equal, so we're seeing about 216HP on a proper running 2.5 intercooled motor with 15PSI, assuming the exhaust is sufficiently free.

 

[unstable bob]

Glad you're getting your plan together.

 

[arieskcar]

@arieskcar Your ability to instantly respond to any post authoritatively and with photos never ceases to amaze me.

Is the TE04H usually so badly hamstrung? I pushed 15 easily on the Shadow, and the one of the LeBaron does 14 pretty consistently. Gary Donovan's site suggests it's good up to about 20, though he bashes it every chance he can. Just some quick-n-dirty estimates anyway: T2 setup at 12PSI on a 2.2 does 174HP. The same setup at 15PSI should be roughly 200HP. A 2.5 should be roughly 8% higher HP, all else being equal, so we're seeing about 216HP on a proper running 2.5 intercooled motor with 15PSI, assuming the exhaust is sufficiently free.

Notifications late night help lol.
Actually the 2.5 moves so much air volume it exceeds the Mitsu's capacity and makes less power at high boost. You can feel it when you get that sudden surge of power but as the boost builds it actually levels off whereas the garret will keep pulling hard. Donovan spoke of it on his site about backpressure buildup and turbine efficiency...

Give the garret a shot on a 2.5 especially in a heavy car it would pull more since each PSI of boost is moving much more air. And the 8v head needs like 35psi to hit 350HP with a dohc motor only needs 10psi at high rpm

 

[benvanderjagt]

I also have to admit, I've never done a clutch. (-: I rebuilt a THM400 years ago, but I've never done a clutch. It looks like it should be super simple to align it with the engine floating on a chain in front of me, but I'm not 100% sure what to do with the flywheel. I matchmarked the pp, clutch, and flywheel on the 2.2 (Getrag A568) and pulled it off, and I also marked TDC on the flywheel more clearly since it's going into a car with a standard distributor. The 2.5 had an auto, so it has a flexplate. There doesn't seem to be any alignment mark on it. Do I need to pull the plugs and find TDC on the 2.5 to align the flywheel correctly, or is there supposed to be a mark on the flexplate?

I'm otherwise ready to lower the 2.5 in and start bolting stuff together. I pulled most of the T3 SBEC wire harness out...though now I think I pulled out a lot more stuff than I needed to. Oh well...

 

[arieskcar]

I also have to admit, I've never done a clutch. (-: I rebuilt a THM400 years ago, but I've never done a clutch. It looks like it should be super simple to align it with the engine floating on a chain in front of me, but I'm not 100% sure what to do with the flywheel. I matchmarked the pp, clutch, and flywheel on the 2.2 (Getrag A568) and pulled it off, and I also marked TDC on the flywheel more clearly since it's going into a car with a standard distributor. The 2.5 had an auto, so it has a flexplate. There doesn't seem to be any alignment mark on it. Do I need to pull the plugs and find TDC on the 2.5 to align the flywheel correctly, or is there supposed to be a mark on the flexplate?

I'm otherwise ready to lower the 2.5 in and start bolting stuff together. I pulled most of the T3 SBEC wire harness out...though now I think I pulled out a lot more stuff than I needed to. Oh well...

One of the bolt holes is offset so you can only put on the flywheel or flex plate 1 way and doing a clutch is easy. Only need a Lil room to put the disk on the tool then bolt up the pressure plate. We did this the other day..

 

[benvanderjagt]

Is my Spirit named Lucifer? My Quest, Pathfinder, and XTerra have all had their camshaft position sensors fail just two weeks apart from eachother. The Sorento's windshield is shattered. My technicians are now all going to be using my 2000 Plymouth Grand Voyager for service calls, and I'm....getting an Uber? How did I get here? o:

@arieskcar Thanks for the help. It was a snap to install. I would have dropped the motor in, except the T3 power stealing pump is completely different, so I had to pull the hydraulics off of the Shadow. (Yes, I still have the mangled chopped up frame.) No big deal, everything did break loose where it needed to. I'm going to try to finish putting the Spirit together tomorrow so that I have a car again. >_> I'm not superstitious, but I'm starting to think I should play the lottery...

 

[benvanderjagt]

I did the LeBaron engine rebuild parked in front of my house and got a ticket thanks to a neighborhood Karen. My favorite roadside fix was when my buddy did rings on a 1986 Honda Civic on I-495.

 

[arieskcar]

I did the LeBaron engine rebuild parked in front of my house and got a ticket thanks to a neighborhood Karen. My favorite roadside fix was when my buddy did rings on a 1986 Honda Civic on I-495.

Ticket? In my area there's no laws against working on your car. Trust me the local Karen tried. She only calls when black or brown ppl show up. This was her post and my comment made her call the cops and when they showed up I showed em this and they left in disgust...

Code Compliance / Zoning

Neighbor is running a garage on public street again. Different cars being worked on every evening.

seeclickfix.com

 

[benvanderjagt]

It's kind of sad. Those who contribute nothing to society feel the need to place themselves in a position of authority and power over everyone else to justify their existence. The Shadow I bought earlier was sold cheap because of an ordinance against visible rust on cars, punishable by a $250 ticket per offense. Where I live, there's one line in city code saying that one's yard is not properly maintained if the grass is shorter than 3" tall, all while another line says you're in violation for grass taller than 3". It's getting harder and harder to live unless you're somehow independently wealthy.

 

[arieskcar]

It's kind of sad. Those who contribute nothing to society feel the need to place themselves in a position of authority and power over everyone else to justify their existence. The Shadow I bought earlier was sold cheap because of an ordinance against visible rust on cars, punishable by a $250 ticket per offense. Where I live, there's one line in city code saying that one's yard is not properly maintained if the grass is shorter than 3" tall, all while another line says you're in violation for grass taller than 3". It's getting harder and harder to live unless you're somehow independently wealthy.

Luckily this is the worst street in the whole town. you saw the graffiti covered abandoned building we all hang out at. Now look at the sidewalk next to the building and the town's response lol.

ADA Compliance | Request #11904857 | SeeClickFix

seeclickfix.com

The crazy lady called the building inspector when I was unloading some car parts. he showed up started taking pictures and when I showed him the ordinance that I was doing nothing wrong (statute gives an hr to unload stuff) I told him if they harass me again I'm gonna Sue the town.
I had to meet with the police chief and the mayor over this a couple years ago so I have everything documented. Essentially they told me they can't do anything and if they try to go after just this street it's illegal selective enforcement they'd have to go after the entire town. According to a lawyer they have to prove it's a business but people hanging out is not a business.

 

[benvanderjagt]

We shouldn't be asking permission to operate a business OR to fix our own cars, yet so many people start with the question, "Is that legal?" Our rights exist regardless of whether they are recognized, and I'm happy to see that more people are starting to think in such a way that makes bureaucracy obsolete.

 

[benvanderjagt]

The motor is mounted. Now to do all the fiddly bits. (-: Turns out the engine mount is different as well. The one from the Shadow was the closest, so we cut two of the mounts into ovals. I still have to swap over the TB (or just the TPS and IAS) and the distributor. I changed the PS pump bracket to the one from the Shadow to be more year-correct...if that matters to anyone other than me. It's getting close, though. I'm still dumbfounded that I was able to pull two motors out with all those accessories still bolted on, but in order to put one in, I had to strip everything off of the accessory end! Anyway, I should have the bulk of it reattached, possibly driving, tomorrow. Yay!

 

[benvanderjagt]

I may have to stop entirely. /-: The engine (and all accessories) are all in, but the SBEC 1991 Spirit R/T harness uses a completely different connector on the inside of the passenger compartment than the SBEC 1991 Shadow ES used. I don't see any way to convert it.

 

[arieskcar]

I may have to stop entirely. /-: The engine (and all accessories) are all in, but the SBEC 1991 Spirit R/T harness uses a completely different connector on the inside of the passenger compartment than the SBEC 1991 Shadow ES used. I don't see any way to convert it.

Easiest ways to use the instrument cluster from the shadow and just use the entire interior and exterior harness from the shadow it bolts up...

 

[benvanderjagt]

DOC G IROC sent me this thread. It makes perfect sense. The T3 has an additional pin to control the banks on the coil pack, but otherwise it's the remaining same two wires from the SBEC. The only problem I have with these instructions is that the colors DON'T match the plug on my 8v SBEC ignition coil plug.

8 valve ti/tii underhood harness for spirit r/t

 

[benvanderjagt]

@NAJ Do you have any diagrams showing the pinout for T1 and T3 SBEC wiring harnesses where the coil plugs in? The 2-wire I have is gray + black/cyan, and the 3-wire (4-pin) I have is green/black + blue/yellow + black/yellow.

 

[benvanderjagt]

@DOC G IROC got me the pinout. Looks like the green/black wire goes on the squared-off side of the 2-wire connector. (-:

 

[benvanderjagt]

 

[benvanderjagt]

The "little fiddly stuff" sure takes a lot of time, but it's almost ready to breathe again. Man, I wish I hadn't stripped quite as much out of the Spirit nor disassembled quite as much of the Shadow, for reference purposes.

I cut the right foot off of the Honda radiator, and I was able to push it all the way to the left. The upper radiator hose is unmodified, but the interesting surprise is that two stock intercoolers fit neatly side-by-side next to it. I've got the Mitsubishi in, so I don't know if there's much value to the extra air-on-air cooling if the turbo can't really push much volume, and also I know FMIC or welded cores are the preferred way to go, but it's definitely an easy way to add more air cooling and see what happens.