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That looks very close in design to the Lotus lifter. The only thing is the Fiat lifter has the white seal on the bottom as does the Lotus lifter . The Lotus 16V rocker has a relief inside where the white seal seats and I imagine floats up and down during the lifter compression cycle. Usually when you pull the lifter out of the lotus rocker the white seal gets ripped up or just falls apart.

The Chrysler and the Mercedes look to have a metal ring guard toward the bottom of the lifter, kinda like a piston ring, or it may be more of a lock ring to keep the lifter from falling out of the rocker. I think you are familiar with that from another thread :( .

Almost have to get picture of Chrysler 3.5 rocker or Mercedes rocker to see if it has a relief inside of the rocker lifter cavity.

Ron
I've used this lifter (Mercedes listed above) for a a few years in a T3. Works very well. Only difference I was able to decipher is that at the base where it contacts the disc is a slightly larger diameter than the stock lifter and doesn't align with the dimples on the lifter disc. My suspicion is that the dimples are there to allow oil flow into the lifter. To allow that oil flow, I made two very small cuts on the lifter base where it rides the disc to allow oil flow in and out.

The lifter seems to be fine, although I think my cuts were a bit too big. At sustained high rpm in an autocross, I ended up getting a bit of clatter after the run. I believe the cuts were a bit too bit and allowed the lifter to bleed down a bit faster than it should have. Oil control in the pan is very good with a baffled, trap door pan and a windage screen, so I don't think it was an oil control issue in the pan. That, and I've autocrossed this set up multiple times in the past without any lifter noise. That being said, the Mercedes lifters have survived about 5k of daily driving, an autocross or two and were in the t3 car I ran in Hot Rod Drag Week in '13, which saw 1000 miles towing a trailer and about 12 drag passes in the 11's.

My plan had been to buy another set and tinker with the oil flow slot size but time hasn't allowed it. It's still on the list, but maybe one of you guys can tackle that sooner than I can.
Pat the Mercedes disc is the same as the TIII disc, the only difference being the oil groves. So you can run the Mercedes discs with the Mercedes lifter, and no modification is needed. I have some hard miles on my car with this setup, and no problems yet .
 

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Wow, this thread alone is why these forums are so useful! (as opposed to FB pages, etc.) This is really good info considering how hard it is to find the originals.

Adam, did you do any modifications to the lifters or discs, or just run them as they are?
 

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Wow, this thread alone is why these forums are so useful! (as opposed to FB pages, etc.) This is really good info considering how hard it is to find the originals.

Adam, did you do any modifications to the lifters or discs, or just run them as they are?
No modification needed at all. just run the mercedes disc with the mercedes lifter.

So which benz lifter is usable? intake or exhaust? does it matter?
They only difference between the two is one them (can't remember if it was intake or exhaust) has a oil restrictor pressed into the end of the lifter. This restrictor can be removed easily.
 

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Discussion Starter #45
I picked up some Mercedes-Benz lifter Pads at the dealer today P/N 1130550076 and did a comparison. Dimensionally they are the same. The M-B pad has longer oil squirt cut outs that are made for this M-B lifter. The pad has addition cut on bottom to get oil to rocker oiling hole.

The attached slide is a little busy but shows the M-B pad with the Lotus pad. You definitely want to use the M-B pad with the M-B lifter if you go this route.

I also have picture of the bottom of lifter with oil restrictor on exhaust lifter P/N 1130500380. I would just leave lifter restrictor in place to work properly with the M-B pad.

M-B pad vs. Lotus pad.jpg

It sounds like Lengel has use the M-B lifter with M-B pad with good results. Has anyone else tried the Mercedes-Benz lifter by chance?

Ron
 

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This is the kind of stuff I do all day at my job. Thanks for taking the time to do this. I know that it required some effort and I have not had the time to do it myself. The more information we all have the better.
 

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so, do i have to use the intake or the exhaust lifter???
can i use the MB intake lifter on the intake rockers, and the MB exhaust lifter i the exhaust rockers???
and the most important thing, where can i find the MB pads, i've already found the lifters on eBay but not the pads :(
 

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Discussion Starter #48
so, do i have to use the intake or the exhaust lifter???
can i use the MB intake lifter on the intake rockers, and the MB exhaust lifter i the exhaust rockers???
and the most important thing, where can i find the MB pads, i've already found the lifters on eBay but not the pads :(

Use the MB exhaust lifter on Lotus Intake and Exhaust rockers. In my Opinion, I would leave the lifter restrictor in place on bottom of MB Lifter. The MB lifter base is larger in ID diameter than the Lotus lifter. The restrictor was designed by MB to give consistent pressure when the lifter is depressed.

Well my friend, the MB dealer is where you will find the MB pads. I picked up 4 pads at MB dealer in Dallas @ $3.50 each for my measurements. The MB Pad should be used with the MB Lifter to keep the MB design in place. This should give good oiling results for the roller rockers. Don't use the Lotus pads with the MB lifters. That's Opinion at this time.

Keep us informed on you results.

Ron
 

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Use the MB exhaust lifter on Lotus Intake and Exhaust rockers. In my Opinion, I would leave the lifter restrictor in place on bottom of MB Lifter. The MB lifter base is larger in ID diameter than the Lotus lifter. The restrictor was designed by MB to give consistent pressure when the lifter is depressed.

Well my friend, the MB dealer is where you will find the MB pads. I picked up 4 pads at MB dealer in Dallas @ $3.50 each for my measurements. The MB Pad should be used with the MB Lifter to keep the MB design in place. This should give good oiling results for the roller rockers. Don't use the Lotus pads with the MB lifters. That's Opinion at this time.

Keep us informed on you results.

Ron
Thanks ron
so do you think that the MB intake lifter has a bad oil flow cuz it doesnt have the oil restrictor???
thats my question
i will go to the MB dealer tomorrow and see if i can find the pads
 

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Discussion Starter #50
Thanks ron
so do you think that the MB intake lifter has a bad oil flow cuz it doesnt have the oil restrictor???
thats my question
i will go to the MB dealer tomorrow and see if i can find the pads
I haven't been able to find the MB intake lifter. One of the members mentioned that he removed the restrictor and may be the only difference between the two lifters.

The MB lifter has a larger capacity by its ID dimensions then the Lotus lifter. If installed in the current lotus rocker, I would use the restrictor on both the Intake and Exhaust lifter positions on initial install. This way you will have equivalent pressures on intake and exhaust valves and cams during the combustion cycle.

Run the engine to see what oil pressure looks like and make sure the oiling is good on the rockers and cams.

If you remove the MB lifter restrictor you may end up with low oil pressure for the engine.

MB designed the lifter with the restrictor. The Germans usually over design things it for a reason. The restrictor may keep the lifter from leaking down over time along with delivering consistent hydraulic results. Need to remember all the oil in the lifter needs to flow through ball valve on internal lifter barrel initially. Then it would flow freely through the restrictor.

From past experience the Lotus 16 valve lifters make a hell of a lot of noise if the engine sits for a few days. The current Lotus design just has the lifter against the lifter pad with the 3 cutouts. I can see how the current lifter design could loose oil over time.

Good question, my thought process is above.

Ron
 

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Great find guys! When I get a little extra cash I will be sure to buy those lifters cause like all of your TIII engines, mine sounds like a diesel. When you buy the lifters P/N: 113-050-03-80 do you need to buy the washer P/N: 113-055-00-76 as well or do the lifters come with the washers?
 

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MB pads have different oil groove dimensions. Pad must stay with the corresponding lifter.
 

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The pads are separate. At this point I'd recommend the fwd performance lifter. They're the fiat style that drop right in. For $220 you can't beat em.

I was using this style before she had stocked them and they work great.
 

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Discussion Starter #55
The pads are separate. At this point I'd recommend the fwd performance lifter. They're the fiat style that drop right in. For $220 you can't beat em.

I was using this style before she had stocked them and they work great.
Price Break FWD has original style lifter qty 16 in stock for $220 . :dancing:

FWD use to sell for like $400+ a set and had limited availability.

Good to know we have lifter options in the future.

Ron
 

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Fwiw, feel is just selling the fiat lifters that are close to factory style. Not sure if anyone has compared the lifter discs fiat used to factory TIII ones. These MB lifters seem like a better option as far as quality.
 

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I'm especially curious to know what the noise difference is between the 2 lifters. I'm sure both of them have got to be better than the stock ones, which makes the engine sound like a diesel.
 

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HELLO..
Every one,,been away from site and my R/T for awhile.
Can the lifters be changed out WITH OUT removing the cams??
And if so is there a video some wheres showing this??

Mike In Maine
 

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Yup. I did. You just need to remove the cam caps (number them too, and put them back in the correct direction) -- The cam will be pulled up on one side from the tension on it from the belt.
 
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