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Discussion Starter #21
Did you disconnect the Time Delay Relay?

My wiring is from Mitchell On Demand, it is not detailed and I am working with standard K-Car wiring, so if there is something else on the circuit...
I do not have Town and Country specific wiring.
If you would like more detailed info that is specific to your vehicle may I suggest...
1)Alldata DIY
Their wiring is broken down into systems/circuits and is much more detailed since it comes from the FSM.
2)FSM
OR
Yes it's disconnected.
 

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For some reason your posts went to "waiting to be approved".

I think you are getting ahead of yourself at this point, take a step back...
You were supposed to reconnect the main power feed underhood to the + battery and verify that ALL fusible links were intact and all had voltage out, again, just like the fuses you may have a stray voltage issue if a fusible link is blown.
Fuse #15 gets its voltage from an Orange fusible link underhood so, if the fusible link for fuse #15 or another circuit has blown and voltage finds an alternate path to ground through the fuse 15 circuit, you now have a circuit being powered that should not be, all of that = an excessive IOD.

Also, the hood lamp and rear defogger switch are also powered through the same OR fusible link.

I also think you should invest the $10.00 for the 88 FWD Cars Wiring Diagrams FSM as I posted in post #18.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
For some reason your posts went to "waiting to be approved".

I think you are getting ahead of yourself at this point, take a step back...
You were supposed to reconnect the main power feed underhood to the + battery and verify that ALL fusible links were intact and all had voltage out, again, just like the fuses you may have a stray voltage issue if a fusible link is blown.
Fuse #15 gets its voltage from an Orange fusible link underhood so, if the fusible link for fuse #15 or another circuit has blown and voltage finds an alternate path to ground through the fuse 15 circuit, you now have a circuit being powered that should not be, all of that = an excessive IOD.

Also, the hood lamp and rear defogger switch are also powered through the same OR fusible link.

I also think you should invest the $10.00 for the 88 FWD Cars Wiring Diagrams FSM as I posted in post #18.
I already checked that fusible link and the defogger switch is also removed at the moment and there is no under hood light. I might have to look into that service manual since everything is disconnected but it still draws power with the fuse in....
 

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Did you verify ALL fusible links were intact and had voltage out?
 

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Discussion Starter #26
Did you verify ALL fusible links were intact and had voltage out?
Yeah I checked all of them I checked all the grounds I even removed all those relays under the hood. Then put them back since the draw was still there. And the only wire I found that had a problem was the knock sensor wire look like a mouse chewed on it and there was a pile of fur behind the valve cover.
 

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Until you get the proper wiring diagrams for the vehicle the only thing left is to disconnect other electrical components such as the engine controller, alternator, ignition switch etc. one at a time to see if the draw goes away.

You also stated that there is no underhood lamp, does it have one that is not working or it never came with one, which seems odd since the standard K-Car apparently had one.
If missing, possibly the wiring is still there, the underhood lamp uses a mercury switch to turn the lamp on/off as the hood is opened/closed.

By any chance does/did this vehicle have any aftermarket accessories installed now or at any time where remnants may still be present, such as sound system devices (amps, sub-woofers, etc.), an alarm system, etc.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
Until you get the proper wiring diagrams for the vehicle the only thing left is to disconnect other electrical components such as the engine controller, alternator, ignition switch etc. one at a time to see if the draw goes away.

You also stated that there is no underhood lamp, does it have one that is not working or it never came with one, which seems odd since the standard K-Car apparently had one.
If missing, possibly the wiring is still there, the underhood lamp uses a mercury switch to turn the lamp on/off as the hood is opened/closed.

By any chance does/did this vehicle have any aftermarket accessories installed now or at any time where remnants may still be present, such as sound system devices (amps, sub-woofers, etc.), an alarm system, etc.
I checked Alldata and it says the power mirrors run off that fuse and sure enough when I try to go up or left it just clunks or does nothing So I unplugged the switch and it started the next day no battery draw down. I still am having an issue with the cluster. It sometimes won't work at all when I reset the battery I have to remove it and when I plug it back in it works but the speedometer is all over the place and I did get a code 15 so either the sensor is bad or there's a connection issue....
 

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So you got an Alldata subscription for the vehicle?
We had numerous subscriptions for family vehicles over the years, it comes in very handy.

Code 15 indicates that the engine controller is not seeing the proper signal so the issue is with a part of the circuit before the split/splice to the cluster since both the controller and cluster are affected (Sensor, Connector/Terminals, Wiring)
 

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Discussion Starter #30
So you got an Alldata subscription for the vehicle?
We had numerous subscriptions for family vehicles over the years, it comes in very handy.

Code 15 indicates that the engine controller is not seeing the proper signal so the issue is with a part of the circuit before the split/splice to the cluster since both the controller and cluster are affected (Sensor, Connector/Terminals, Wiring)
the final cracked version of Alldata stops at 2013 it's a humongous download but definitely worth it 700+GB.
I'm going to check the connector see if it's dirty check the wiring but hopefully it's just a sensor that cluster is known to be a big problem. Do you know if there's any alternative clusters that are more reliable with the same connections?
A couple years ago I switched to a digital cluster in my 88 Buick Regal and it was the same plug but I just had to move wires around in the connector but it looked really good when it was done.
 

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Unfortunately I do not know which clusters may be interchangeable.

Check the Chrysler Parts Catalog.

 

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Discussion Starter #32
Unfortunately I do not know which clusters may be interchangeable.

Check the Chrysler Parts Catalog.

Unplugging the power window switch seems to have fixed the power draw. 3 days car sat and it fired right up no low battery like before I couldn't get a few hours till it drained 2 batteries in one day.

Still have the speedo going crazy. Don't know if it's the speed sensor,wiring or cluster. It shows MPH above 0 at idle and moving it sometimes jumps to 99mph but stays close to the real speed.

Also idle is a lil rough but drives fine. Good power/mpg random misfires at idle might be related to my mouse chewed injector harness and knock sensor wire.

Doing normal maintenance (timing belts,hoses,plugs wires etc) on the 89 Aries 2.2 tbi and this car 2.2 t1 88 and I'm going for the O2 sensors since those are tune up items and I'm way past the recommended interval.

Do these Oxygen sensors look original?
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Discussion Starter #34
Very possibly OE, they are old.
I did a bunch or stuff today and somehow the speedometer is working perfectly now. No jumping numbers all over the place.

-Changed oil (Pennzoil Plat 10w30 High Mileage)
-Checked speed sensor looks dirty and has a cap so it's the speedo cable sensor type but no cable....
-Changed Fuel Filter and hoses/clamps (Purolator)
-taped up knock wire and injector wire that were slightly mouse chewed
-Gapped plugs to .35
-Fluid film on the underside rust
-ran a Ground from neg bat to strut tower. It helped my 89 Prelude and my 2005 Altima that had crank no start issues. (Ground off paint to bare metal)
-gave it a bottle of Chevron Techron and drove on the highway.

Still has a miss at idle (No codes) but that airbox looks like it will break off at the grommets if I try to do the timing (Can't see timing window airbox in the way)

All the other grounds are connected sohow did that get the speedo working? If that's even why
(My 05 Altima ground was broken off the trans and gave TB codes and hard restarts until I ran a new ground from bat to strut tower to head)

Going to do the O2 next but engine/trans is nasty so I might try to clean it first.
Any other regular maintenance items?
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Miss at idle could be related/caused by numerous things Ignition related or Engine Mechanical related.

The only way to know 100% would be to verify the Ignition System is capable of/and is providing the proper voltage at each cylinder, this can be done with an Adjustable Spark Tester.
The system is capable of 40 KV, test at 25 KV on all cylinders.


IGNITION - Adjustable Spark Tester.jpg


After that if no issue is found you would need to perform a Compression Test, Cylinder Leakdown Test and an Injector Balance Test.
SPECS-Engine Compression.jpg


Needed to perform an Injector Balance Test.


As far as other maintenance items...
PCV System (Hoses/Grommets and Valve)
Vacuum Line Condition (Swollen/Cracked/Dry Rotted/Brittle)
Direct Injector Cleaning (There is no evidence that fuel supplements actually do anything)
Clean the Throttle Body and AIS
 

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Discussion Starter #36
Miss at idle could be related/caused by numerous things Ignition related or Engine Mechanical related.

The only way to know 100% would be to verify the Ignition System is capable of/and is providing the proper voltage at each cylinder, this can be done with an Adjustable Spark Tester.
The system is capable of 40 KV, test at 25 KV on all cylinders.


View attachment 273400


After that if no issue is found you would need to perform a Compression Test, Cylinder Leakdown Test and an Injector Balance Test.
View attachment 273401


Needed to perform an Injector Balance Test.


As far as other maintenance items...
PCV System (Hoses/Grommets and Valve)
Vacuum Line Condition (Swollen/Cracked/Dry Rotted/Brittle)
Direct Injector Cleaning (There is no evidence that fuel supplements actually do anything)
Clean the Throttle Body and AIS
I'll report back with compression and spark results. and I'll try a leakdown test but the injector stuff I don't have the tools for that. I might have a spare head/intake somewhere I'd just swap injectors. On my GM 3.1/2.8 MPFI they had stalling issues due to bad injectors. I remember I had to check the Ohms for the bad ones. Are these Chrysler ones tested the same way?
 

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Resistance or actual functionality of the injector is not the issue, the issue is dirt restricting and affecting the fuel spray and amount of fuel the injector actually injects.
The controller has no idea how much fuel is being injected, it only knows that with all of the info it is receiving that it needs to have an injector pulse width of _____milliseconds for those conditions.
That is where the injector balance test comes in, it allows you to pulse the injector with a calibrated pulse and watch the fuel pressure drop as it is pulsed, doing that on all cylinders allows you to see if all injectors are allowing the same amount of fuel.

Also, keep in mind that the 2.2L engines were never smooth idling engines, they never received a balance shaft like the 2.5L engine, the only 2.2L that received a balance shaft was the Turbo IV VNT.
Do not want you to be chasing a ghost.
 

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Discussion Starter #38
Resistance or actual functionality of the injector is not the issue, the issue is dirt restricting and affecting the fuel spray and amount of fuel the injector actually injects.
The controller has no idea how much fuel is being injected, it only knows that with all of the info it is receiving that it needs to have an injector pulse width of _____milliseconds for those conditions.
That is where the injector balance test comes in, it allows you to pulse the injector with a calibrated pulse and watch the fuel pressure drop as it is pulsed, doing that on all cylinders allows you to see if all injectors are allowing the same amount of fuel.

Also, keep in mind that the 2.2L engines were never smooth idling engines, they never received a balance shaft like the 2.5L engine, the only 2.2L that received a balance shaft was the Turbo IV VNT.
Do not want you to be chasing a ghost.
My 2.2 Tbi runs smoothly at idle the 2.2 T1 has what seems like misfires at idle.

What do you think?

TBI

T1 (weird sound at start is PCV)
 

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Some made a miss sound when the baro took in a gulp of air.

Some more noticeable than others.

Probably affecting your PCV.

Thanks
Randy
 

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The only way you are going to locate the cause of a rough idle/misfire is to verify...
Ignition - Minimum of 25 KV at each cylinder, plugs are gapped properly, not worn or fouled
Fuel - Fuel Pressure, Injector Balance
Vacuum System - No lines are collapsed/cracked/disconnected/routed improperly
Engine Mechanical - Compression, Cylinder Leakdown, Cam/Ignition Timing
Sensor Calibration - Map Sensor Voltage Readings and Reaction, O2 Sensor Switching
 
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