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Just tore apart my brand new OBX unit and suprise surprise broken spring washers. Anyone have this problem and is there a source for replacements?
New OBX LSD broken spring washers????
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look on turbomopar.com turbovanman has/had the same problem. They are called bellville washers and you can buy them if you know what size they are. The ramsdell's know where to get them, if you know the size
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I welded mine back together and it works perfectly. If you search my name on TM and OBX, Chris Ramsdel posted a link on where to buy them.
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Thanks for the reply guys found a source here on Toronto. I still have to see if they can get them if not i will contact Chris
BTW I measured the washers quickly with a caliper:
1.1" outer diameter (27.94mm) I think up to 1.115 will fit but the hub lip is 1.030" so they have to be larger than that and not pull through.
.49" center hole (12.446mm) not that this really matters that much but it seems to change the spring rates. Larger hole, stiffer spring (less leverage?)
.05" thick (1.27mm)
.085" height (2.16mm)
I think they are actually metric so this means:
28mm OD
12.5mm ID
1.25mm thick
2.15mm height
going with 1mm or 1.5mm will change the preload quite a bit. I think more preload will tend to keep the diff locked longer while turning. This is based on some design notes on similar diffs that use real springs between the hubs.
Going up to 1.5mm washers will probably increase it by 75% or so it is a pretty drastic change.
I put in a quote at http://www.keybellevilles.com/ so I should know soon how fast they can get them and the price.
-Rich
1.1" outer diameter (27.94mm) I think up to 1.115 will fit but the hub lip is 1.030" so they have to be larger than that and not pull through.
.49" center hole (12.446mm) not that this really matters that much but it seems to change the spring rates. Larger hole, stiffer spring (less leverage?)
.05" thick (1.27mm)
.085" height (2.16mm)
I think they are actually metric so this means:
28mm OD
12.5mm ID
1.25mm thick
2.15mm height
going with 1mm or 1.5mm will change the preload quite a bit. I think more preload will tend to keep the diff locked longer while turning. This is based on some design notes on similar diffs that use real springs between the hubs.
Going up to 1.5mm washers will probably increase it by 75% or so it is a pretty drastic change.
I put in a quote at http://www.keybellevilles.com/ so I should know soon how fast they can get them and the price.
-Rich
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371 Posts
Thanks for the info on the spacers.This car is a drag only apllication so i think a tighter diff might be the answer.Anyone want to cime in here with recommendations is ok.I will check what is available
I got the quote back. They are $2 each in small quantities w/ a min order of 24 washers. If people are interested in a set let me know I can probably sell them for $15 a set.
It wouldn't be hard to order a little bit stronger springs but I bet even these will be stronger than the POS springs that come with it.
-Rich
It wouldn't be hard to order a little bit stronger springs but I bet even these will be stronger than the POS springs that come with it.
-Rich
I also grabbed some from mcmastercar that I plan to stack in and make roughtly the same spring rate.
If a few more people respond I can order the others but it will be $50 or more for the min order so it is hard to justify for 2 people.
28mmX1mm washers tend to have a load of about 1100 N
28mmx1.25mm washers tend to have a load of about 2200 N
28mmx1.5mm washers tend to have a load of about 2900 N
Essentially I am going to use 10 1mm washers that have a 1.8mm height like this:
(())(())(( This is ~14mm (5 * 1.8mm + 5 * 1mm) and gives a load of 1100 * 2 + 3% = 2266
This costs me $5.29 plus shipping for a bag of 12
instead of the 6 1.5mm washers that have a height of 2.15mm
)()()( This is ~12.9mm and gives a load of 2200
This would cost $2 each
If there is a lot of interest I can check in pricing for 100+ from kellybelleville and that might make more cents...
-Rich
If a few more people respond I can order the others but it will be $50 or more for the min order so it is hard to justify for 2 people.
28mmX1mm washers tend to have a load of about 1100 N
28mmx1.25mm washers tend to have a load of about 2200 N
28mmx1.5mm washers tend to have a load of about 2900 N
Essentially I am going to use 10 1mm washers that have a 1.8mm height like this:
(())(())(( This is ~14mm (5 * 1.8mm + 5 * 1mm) and gives a load of 1100 * 2 + 3% = 2266
This costs me $5.29 plus shipping for a bag of 12
instead of the 6 1.5mm washers that have a height of 2.15mm
)()()( This is ~12.9mm and gives a load of 2200
This would cost $2 each
If there is a lot of interest I can check in pricing for 100+ from kellybelleville and that might make more cents...
-Rich
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371 Posts
hey Scott sending back to the states shipping and crap for the cost of new washers not worth it.This is not the only problem so far. 2 bolts also stripped but the housing is ok.For the cost of the bolts cheap also.I would only send it back if it failed large.Go ahead and buy one and i will order more washers
rbf i have a source here i am checking on but if it falls through i will let you know.I think i will go with the 1.5mm 700lbs more is not that high
rbf i have a source here i am checking on but if it falls through i will let you know.I think i will go with the 1.5mm 700lbs more is not that high
All,
Here is a description of why the bellville washers are included and a solution!
I found that the belleville washers are only included for when one wheel has very low or zero traction (off the ground, on ice, etc). In these cases the other wheel won't have any traction either because it is a torque biasing diff. Zero times the bias number is still zero.
The washers are therefore used as the LSD in that scenerio by adding pressure between the two axles similar to a phantom grip.
I ordered 8 sets of stock sized replacements (finally found a source w/o a min order and small quantity pricing).
I will have them mid next week. I can sell them for $15 a set shipped.
I can also get them in 25% stronger for the same price but only have one set on order.
PM me if you want a set.
Thanks,
Rich
Here is a description of why the bellville washers are included and a solution!
I found that the belleville washers are only included for when one wheel has very low or zero traction (off the ground, on ice, etc). In these cases the other wheel won't have any traction either because it is a torque biasing diff. Zero times the bias number is still zero.
The washers are therefore used as the LSD in that scenerio by adding pressure between the two axles similar to a phantom grip.
I ordered 8 sets of stock sized replacements (finally found a source w/o a min order and small quantity pricing).
I will have them mid next week. I can sell them for $15 a set shipped.
I can also get them in 25% stronger for the same price but only have one set on order.
PM me if you want a set.
Thanks,
Rich
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So are you going to do a test for us w/ the factory then the +25% and tell us which seems to work better? I know that's very optimistic but also helpfull
Oh boy... I am not sure my wife would allow me to live if I put it back together and then took it apart again right away...speeduphoria said:
Plus the way things have been going I would definitely like the first way better and have to do it a third time!
So probably not. I am seriously considering using the +25% though. I got some of this info from a BMW guy so maybe I can ask him how much he increased his by in his quaife.
-Rich
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I would be interested in what he has to say at the very least
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I will be getting a both types if my supplier comes through.I will be using the stronger ones in my GLHT.Not sure when the car will be done but soon i hope.I will post how it works out
Guess when mine comes in, I will have dean rip it apart before instaling it. Should I have all new washers of better quality installed as a preventative measure? How can these washers be broken even when the unit is new and has seen no stresses yet?
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Bets to tear it down just to be sure.I would ony replace them if they are broken.How could they be broken i guess not much quality control in CHINA:bang head
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