Turbo Dodge Forums banner
1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I bought my 1987 Shelby Charger GLHS in late 2017 and the car ran great for the first two ½ years. Never one to leave a good thing alone I decided to dress up the engine compartment for cruise nights and car shows with a cone intake and an aluminum upper intake hose and a few other things. I pulled the old AirBox assyand cleaned all the grease and grime that accumulated over the 32 years. When I started the car back up with the new intake parts installed I had zero boost. It was so lacking that the lower intercooler hose was collapsing from the intake manifold pressure,.Driving the car was impossible with it choking out at 35 MPH. After testing the wastegate can and finding it functional I assumed the swingvalve disk had broken loose and the valve was dumping the boost.

It was around this time that my back gave out and i was in the hospital for back surgery #3 which ended any work I could do on the car for the extended future.

After surgery, now over a year since the problem started I came into a few bucks and decided to purchase an upgraded Garrett turbo from Turbos Unleashed and new 2.5 in swingvalve and a 3” exhaust from FWD performance. Since I couldn't do this modification myself I sent my car to a reputable restoration shop in my town and had them change the turbo/swingvalve and install the new 3” exhaust, no cat and a magnaflow muffler.

For the next three months they had my car trying to solve the problem, they had me buy and replace every sensor on the car, a replacement logic module (Stage 3 from FWD), and then installed a vacuum block and all new silicone vacuum lines. Still NO BOOST! At this time after charging me $4K in labor and parts they told me they were giving up on the car and it is costing them time and is backing up their shop and to come and pick up the car.. They even had the gall to tell me I actually owe them another $800 for the vacuum setup but they would let it go. What a bunch of “nice guys”.

Since I have finally been able to work on the car a few months later I have changed to a bigger watergate can with an adjustable arm and have tried to make the wastegate arm so tight it couldn't possibly open the actuator, test drove it and STILL NO BOOST! I can hear the turbo whine like crazy so it is doing something. Figuring that I must have a Boost leak, I setup a Boost Leak test using a hand made setup and I can get the car to hold steady 18 psi all the way through the intake system. Again I test drive it and still NO BOOST! Also I have run a direct line from the vacuum block to the wastegate can running through a grainger valve tightened all the way in and the car just won’t accelerate, when it feels like the boost should come in, it goes flat.

I am at a loss as to what the problem could be, where is the boost going, Both turbos are fine, the original one that was pulled shows little wear or endplay, the car has 54K miles. The replacement is a rebuilt unit from TU with the quick spool option but neither will produce boost in this car, I would expect overboost from some of the attempts I have done but NO BOOST.

Any suggestions or a mechanic in the New England area that might be able to help. The weather is getting nice and this car has been sitting now for almost 2 years and I would really like to enjoy it again.

I appreciate all who took the time to read this extensive post.
 

·
Registered
1992 dodge shadow es turbo
Joined
·
953 Posts
Could be a plugged intercooler or a really bad air filter, did you try running it with the air filter off?
 

·
Registered
1992 dodge shadow es turbo
Joined
·
953 Posts
Really this shouldn’t be that hard to solve, there is a possibility that you have a cam timing issue.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,696 Posts
Really this shouldn’t be that hard to solve, there is a possibility that you have a cam timing issue.
Yep, that is where my money would be on. The car can run (poorly) even with cam timing like three teeth off! What sort of vaccum readings are you getting when idling? My advice is get back to basics. Test fuel pressure, cam timing, compression check, or better yet leakdown test. You mentioned the lower intercooler hose collapsing. That is a clue! Car not being able to accelerate past 35MPH is another clue. All this reared it's head when you changed out the turbo's airbox/inlet. Possibly another clue.The lower intercooler hose is fastened directly to the outlet of the turbo. Your turbo is not making boost. Captain obvious here, but are the inlet and outlet of turbo hoses run correctly? Maybe some pictures might help. Sometimes they speak a thousand words.
This reminds me of a friend that is an original owner of a beautiful 86 GLHS. He was doing maintenance on the car over a period of time. Life got him going in a few other directions temporarily, and when he got back to the car, his car would idle and die with the first hint of throttle. He sent me some pics of the plugs and they were the absolute worst looking plugs I've ever seen! Turns out he had a rag stuffed in the end of the turbo inlet hose. It worked it's way down to the compressor wheel (out of site) and the rag was so big the compressor wheel couldn't ingest it. It just effectively held the rotating parts of the turbo motionless. Took the rag out and everything was back to normal with nothing no worse for wear.
My point is you need to get back to basics and check all the obvious stuff. Post up some pics of the cold side of turbo (ie; hoses air filter, lower intercooler hose).
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
26,126 Posts
Car sitting for 2 years can = rodent nests, chewed wiring, poor fuel quality, etc.
I agree with everything that has been stated above, back to basics...

1)Cam/Ignition Timing
2)Fuel Pressure
3)Restricted Exhaust System
From everything you are describing this sounds likely to be the cause.
4)Issues with Air Intake or Charge Piping.
5)Wastegate/BOV issues
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Did you accidentally leave any shop rags anywhere in the induction system when you did the initial "dress up" work? A rag could have been stuffed somewhere to prevent debris from entering the system during repair work, and maybe it was never removed. I wiped out a bearing in my slant six when a paper towel got sucked into the oil pump pickup screen. I still don't know how it got in there...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
I’m with the other replies, it sounds like you left a rag in the lower hose going to the intercooler and now the rag is stuck in the intercooler causing a restriction. Retrace your steps of what you did the first time it happened. You said the car ran fine before you cleaned it so I’m thinking that most likely it has something to do with what you did that day.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
886 Posts
I bought my 1987 Shelby Charger GLHS in late 2017 and the car ran great for the first two ½ years. Never one to leave a good thing alone I decided to dress up the engine compartment for cruise nights and car shows with a cone intake and an aluminum upper intake hose and a few other things. I pulled the old AirBox assyand cleaned all the grease and grime that accumulated over the 32 years. When I started the car back up with the new intake parts installed I had zero boost. It was so lacking that the lower intercooler hose was collapsing from the intake manifold pressure,.Driving the car was impossible with it choking out at 35 MPH. After testing the wastegate can and finding it functional I assumed the swingvalve disk had broken loose and the valve was dumping the boost.

It was around this time that my back gave out and i was in the hospital for back surgery #3 which ended any work I could do on the car for the extended future.

After surgery, now over a year since the problem started I came into a few bucks and decided to purchase an upgraded Garrett turbo from Turbos Unleashed and new 2.5 in swingvalve and a 3” exhaust from FWD performance. Since I couldn't do this modification myself I sent my car to a reputable restoration shop in my town and had them change the turbo/swingvalve and install the new 3” exhaust, no cat and a magnaflow muffler.

For the next three months they had my car trying to solve the problem, they had me buy and replace every sensor on the car, a replacement logic module (Stage 3 from FWD), and then installed a vacuum block and all new silicone vacuum lines. Still NO BOOST! At this time after charging me $4K in labor and parts they told me they were giving up on the car and it is costing them time and is backing up their shop and to come and pick up the car.. They even had the gall to tell me I actually owe them another $800 for the vacuum setup but they would let it go. What a bunch of “nice guys”.

Since I have finally been able to work on the car a few months later I have changed to a bigger watergate can with an adjustable arm and have tried to make the wastegate arm so tight it couldn't possibly open the actuator, test drove it and STILL NO BOOST! I can hear the turbo whine like crazy so it is doing something. Figuring that I must have a Boost leak, I setup a Boost Leak test using a hand made setup and I can get the car to hold steady 18 psi all the way through the intake system. Again I test drive it and still NO BOOST! Also I have run a direct line from the vacuum block to the wastegate can running through a grainger valve tightened all the way in and the car just won’t accelerate, when it feels like the boost should come in, it goes flat.

I am at a loss as to what the problem could be, where is the boost going, Both turbos are fine, the original one that was pulled shows little wear or endplay, the car has 54K miles. The replacement is a rebuilt unit from TU with the quick spool option but neither will produce boost in this car, I would expect overboost from some of the attempts I have done but NO BOOST.

Any suggestions or a mechanic in the New England area that might be able to help. The weather is getting nice and this car has been sitting now for almost 2 years and I would really like to enjoy it again.

I appreciate all who took the time to read this extensive post.
If you can't figure it out I'm in the Boston area if you're not too far I could check it out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
524 Posts
I pulled the old AirBox assyand cleaned all the grease and grime that accumulated over the 32 years. When I started the car back up with the new intake parts installed I had zero boost.
Did you remove the support brace from the cylinder head to the intake? If you don't replace the mounting bolt in the intake it will cause a massive vacuum leak. Very common to do and it'll drive you crazy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks for all the input guys, the car has been well stored and just spent 3 mos. at a resto shop so no mice issues, wiring etc.. I have pulled all the intercooler hoses myself and nothing as simple as a someone leaving a rag in. I also pressure checked the intercooler lines from the air intake (removed cone filter) to the top of the intercooler using some homemade plugs with a tire valve and there are no leaks, in fact, I could get it to hold18 psi pressure for over an hour. The car is getting 22 in of vac. and I am not experiencing any vacuum leaks either, this shop put in a new vacuum block and silicone lines thinking that was the issue so that is all tested and new. I also checked the cam timing issue as pointed out in another post as I though this might really be the culprit and the pics I attached I believe disprove this if I am reading the cam timing marks correctly. Not sure about this support brace but wouldn't this cause no vacuum or poor vac. I have also had the wastegate rod so tight it couldn't possibly open under vacuum and the car still won't produce boost. I am now doubting myself and want to pressure test the intercooler itself to see if that is the culprit of a boost leak. I just stare at it now and shake my head now as I am out of possible solutions.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
886 Posts
Thanks for all the input guys, the car has been well stored and just spent 3 mos. at a resto shop so no mice issues, wiring etc.. I have pulled all the intercooler hoses myself and nothing as simple as a someone leaving a rag in. I also pressure checked the intercooler lines from the air intake (removed cone filter) to the top of the intercooler using some homemade plugs with a tire valve and there are no leaks, in fact, I could get it to hold18 psi pressure for over an hour. The car is getting 22 in of vac. and I am not experiencing any vacuum leaks either, this shop put in a new vacuum block and silicone lines thinking that was the issue so that is all tested and new. I also checked the cam timing issue as pointed out in another post as I though this might really be the culprit and the pics I attached I believe disprove this if I am reading the cam timing marks correctly. Not sure about this support brace but wouldn't this cause no vacuum or poor vac. I have also had the wastegate rod so tight it couldn't possibly open under vacuum and the car still won't produce boost. I am now doubting myself and want to pressure test the intercooler itself to see if that is the culprit of a boost leak. I just stare at it now and shake my head now as I am out of possible solutions.
Timing marks look perfect but if it's still making no boost it's probably something simple.
A Turbo is just an exhaust driven fan so if it's spinning making pressure and getting to the intake it should have boost.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
711 Posts
So you must have a restriction upstream of the intercooler lower hose or that hose is bad (weak). When I owned a supercharged 2003 Mach 1 I rigged up a pressure tester for looking for boost leaks. Essentially it was nothing more than then a PVC cap that I got from Lowes or Home Depot that was very close in hose diameter, drilled and tapped it to accommodate an air chunk adapter, and then would hook my air compressor up to the chuck with about 10 psi. I did this coming off the supercharger so the intercooler, piping, hoses, and intake all were pressurized and made leak detection a breeze.

Maybe you can rig something like that up coming off the turbo out hose or intercooler in port? Just remember to clamp thecap on TIGHT or it will blow off under pressure. Dont ask me how I know.... Yeah it left a mark on my forehead. LOL
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Ran a test using the adapters pictured and capped off the upper intercooler and was able to get it to hold pressure steadily at 18 psi.
Camera lens Automotive tire Camera accessory Lens Dishware
Camera lens Automotive tire Camera accessory Lens Dishware

-
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,696 Posts
Okay, are you sure you had same exact no boost condition with old turbo? Was that the original turbo? The reason I'm double checking, is you mentioned you had a bought a replacement turbo from TU. Did you happen to purchase the .63 reproduction exhaust scroll from Chris as well? If you did, I may very well know what is going on with your turbo.
When Chris had these reproduced, after the prototypes were made and shipped to Chris for approval, the batch was cast. Like the original housings, a decision was made to cast the hole in the housing rather than drill the hole in each housing. SOMEHOW, the hole for the wastegate was relocated quite a ways off! Chris's solution was to give the purchaser (if they also bought a swingvalve) a larger puck to attach to the swingvalve, as the original Garrett and Turbonetics swingvalve puck didn't cover the misaligned wastegate hole. Why he seems to keep this important tidbit of info on the down low is beyond me. He is only going to anger customers that bolt this on and fail to check or remedy the situation.
Attached is a picture of a NOS correct Turbonetics .63 housing wastegate location on the left, and Chris's misaligned wastegate housing hole on the right. The lines are drawn on each housing only to show how far off the hole was cast. Interestingly on the prototype housings Chris received, the wastegate holes were drilled not cast. All the prototype housings were all in the correct position. I know this because I have one of the prototype stage III housings.
IMO, even the much larger swingvalve puck Chris had made up, wasn't made quite correct either. At least on the first batch Chris had made up. On the third attachment, notice the missing step in the puck vs. the original parked next to it? In the second attachment, notice how much slop there is in the swingvalve hole. I had to correct this on a friends engine I was screwing together, by welding the hole shut, and re-drilling to the proper size, and welding the puck on using some thin stainless washers. FYI -the stock original wastegate puck is 28mm and the replacement wastegate puck Chris made to correct the alignment issue is 38mm. Goes to show you how far off the hole was off in casting! The rest of the housing and machine work is perfect on the reproduced TU .63 housings. IMO, far superior to the original or Turbonetics .63 housings.
This could certainly explain why the turbo isn't generating any boost in the intake manifold, but it wouldn't explain why the old turbo didn't spool (unless you had installed a .63 housing from Chris on that turbo too).
If you're using the original .48 Chrysler housing on your new turbo, well never mind this entire post (lol).
Auto part Metal Rim Event Tool
Household hardware Nickel Metal Close-up Auto part
Musical instrument Idiophone Guitar accessory Fluid Musical instrument accessory
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thanks for pointing this out 4 L-bodies, I called Chris at TU and he did not sell me the .63 reproduction exhaust scroll so that can eliminate this possible cause. I also did lose boost with the old turbo so after talking to Chris again, after pulling the vacuum line to the wastegate and getting no boost again, he suggested I run a compression check next. I am seeing a bit of white smoke and my coolant is down just a bit which I am hoping is not a blown head gasket but it would at least be the start of a possible solution.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Ran a compression check and all cylinders were within a couple PSI at around 120 psi. When I did clean and degrease the motor when changing the intake I did use that purple stuff cleaner which is known to eat into paint, plastic and rubber. My lower intercooler hose while looking good is very soft and I can squeeze it closed with one hand. I am not sure if this could be the ultimate cause of no boost but I am looking for one now so if anyone has a GLHS lower intercooler hose please PM me.
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top