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Discussion Starter #1
I have a 85 Shelby that I’ve done some work on. It doesn’t want to start. I’ve confirmed that I have spark and both the coil and the plugs, will kick a bit with some starting fluid. I checked for fuel pressure but there is nothing not even a dribble. The pump is priming and I confirmed that the ASD relay is working by jumping it. I’ve already replaced the external pump but haven’t tested the in tank pump.

Would a in tank pump failure cause absolutely no fuel pressure is there any fuses/relays that I should also check.

I have a code 12 and code 23.
 

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The internal pump on the L-bodies isn't much more sophisticated than your average windshield washer pump. Exaggerating a little, but not much. They hemorrhaged internally inside tank since they were new. IMO, terrible design. When they fail they pretty much just lock up. I'd get that changed out before you lose a fusible link. Aren't you tired of hearing your external pump making horrendous noise? Do yourself a favor and put in a proper Walbro or Deatschwerks pump and be done with it.
Code 23 is charge temp sensor. Completely unrelated to your fuel problem. That is the plastic sensor located on the top of your intake manifold (passenger side of center).
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the info. Do you have a recommendation for were to order a in tank pump? Auto part stores in my area want 115$-130$ for one.
 

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To get a Walbro 190 In Tank Pump go to...

https://www.fwdperformance.com/Store/Category.asp?IDCatalog=7&txtCatalog=Fuel System

Do not forget to change the fuel filter and check the rubber fuel lines for cracks/softness/swelling/brittleness.
If you have to replace any rubber fuel lines be sure to use the proper Fuel Injection Hose and Fuel Injection Hose Clamps. (5/16" for the Feed Lines and 1/4" for the Return Lines)
 

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If you go with the Deatschwerks pump get the Honda filter kit # 0846. I personally like the Deatschwerks pumps because they are ethanol compatible, come with 3 year warranty, and are without a doubt quieter than the Walbro. Nothing wrong with either pump. If you buy the Walbro, make sure it is from an authorized vendor or someone with a good reputation. Lots of fake Chinese knockoffs out there. If the Walbro price seems to good to be true, its probably a knockoff. The Deatschwerks guys claim to not have a problem with knockoffs yet. BTW the wiring connector is the same for both pumps. You'll need a wiring pigtail for either pump. Some kits come with them while others don't.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Sorry for not posing in a while, it’s been a slow build. So I’ve replaced the fuel pump and now I’m finally getting it to turn over and idle. I was able to get the ignition timing done but every time I gave it a little gas it would die.
Checked codes and was getting code 23 and 24. Since then I replaced TPS and gave it another go but now it kicks over and gets to 1000 rpm then just dies no idle and will not stay running even if I give it some throttle. I’m pretty stumped on what to do next and would like some direction.
 

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We need more info to help you. What pump(s) did you install? What sending unit in fuel tank are you running? Do you have a fuel pressure gauge to screw into the Schrader valve? If so, what does it read for PSI? What else did you do to vehicle? Does it have it's original head #287 , logic module, distributor, etc.
If the vehicle ran with the old TPS and doesn't run with the replacement TPS that should tell you something. Do you have a VOM and know how to use it, or a DRB II scan tool you can get your hands on?
 

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Basics, Basics, Basics...

Since you had fuel issues my suggestion would be to connect a fuel pressure gauge and see what fuel pressure is reading.
You can rent a fuel pressure gauge at AZ, leave a deposit on the tool and get a full refund when the tool is returned.

https://www.autozone.com/loan-a-tools/loaner-fuel-pump-diagnostic-kit

Checking Fuel Pressure
https://www.turbododge.com/forums/f4/f14/358339-checking-fuel-pressure-84-93-turbo.html

Also, did the TPS code go away after replacing the TPS?
If NO, then the TPS circuit needs to be diagnosed to determine the cause.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I’ve replaced the power module and the logic module, motor mounts/trans mounts, clutch, distributor cap/rotor, TPS, fuel pump external&internal.

I have a strong suspicion that the circuit for both the TPS and charge temp sensor (Codes 23, 24) are causing the issue considering that I’ve replaced the TPS and I’m still getting the codes.
I have the Chrysler service and wiring manual so I’m going to begin digging for some info.
 

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Checking/Testing the TPS circuit is basically simple.

You have 3 wires...
1)OR/WT - 5 Volt Reference
2)OR/DB - Signal Line
3)BK/LB - Signal Return

Before doing anything be 100% sure your main controller ground is securely connected and has continuity (less than 5 ohms) to ground.
ELECTRICAL- Main Controller Ground 84-89.jpg

1)Using a digital voltmeter backprobe the Signal (OR/DB) and Signal Return (BK/LB) lines at the TPS/AIS 6 way connector.
ELECTRIC-TPS Connector 85-86.jpg
2)Turn the key to the On position.
3)What is closed throttle voltage reading?
(Normal reading should be .30 - .90 volts)

Post back and we will proceed from there.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Alright more info for ye mighty car gods.

Volt readings with key on throttle closed is 1.08, open 4.10. Odd.

Fuel pressure.
Key On, ASD actuated the pressure only gets to about 25-30. Fuel pump bad.
If the asd is cycled on and off it will get up to a max of 50 don’t know if that helps.

Attempted to dead head by pinching the return line but there was no jump in psi. Probably because the pump is bad.

Attempted a bleed out, the psi fell quickly maybe 2-3 min before nearly no psi.

Checked for fuel in vacuum line found none.

Finally I re-pressurized the line, key off jumper off and pinched the return and psi slowly went down. FRP good?
Repeated process but with inlet line clamped and pressure held. Fuel pump bad the

Everything points to the fuel pump being bad I mean its super noisy and sounds like it was struggling, I’m pretty sure it was failing as I tested as to would take longer and longer to pressurize and by my last test it only went to 20 psi. (Damn really regretting not getting the better intank pump, but hey failure is the best teacher).

So I’ll be looking into getting a new pump and go from there.
 

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FUEL PUMP
Your fuel pressure readings and noise do indicate a faulty pump, however...
Be 100% sure that there are no restrictions in the fuel feed circuit (collapsed/pinched line, clogged filter, etc) that will lower fuel pressure/volume and put a strain on the pump.

TPS CODE 24
If you clear the codes, turn the key on/off/on and the code returns then you have a hard fault and there is an issue in the circuit.
1.08 volts at closed throttle at the TPS connector is a bit high but should not set your Code 24.

You also need to check voltage at the controller to see if voltage reads the same.
(Unfortunately you cannot see exactly what the controller see's without a scanner.)
You are going to want to probe Cavity 21 of the LM Blue Connector (TPS Signal OR/DB) and Cavity 25 of the LM Red Connector (TPS Signal Return BK/LB) to read voltage.
FYI...
Very Common for corrosion to be present on the LM connectors causing poor connections and causing driveability issues and setting fault codes

LM CONNECTOR PINOUTS
85-87 LM Turbo Red.jpg

85-87 LM Turbo Blue.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Fuel taken care of but more things to handle

Fuel pump is replaced and the actually idles now so I let it run for a bit just to warm up and look for vacuum leaks. Fixed a minor hiss but nothing substantial. But after 10 min I started to notice some slight white/grey smoke from the back of the engine near the turbo housing. It only seems to start when it warms up then persists for a few minutes after the engine is shut off. (Vehicle has been siting for at least a year and with replacing the clutch and starter I wouldn’t be surprised if I get the down pipe and bottom of turbo filthy/oily)

More info. Checked codes again and there is quite the list. 12, 23, 32, 42, 46, 52. Code 46 seems straight forward (I purchased a used battery from a junk yard to save as few bucks, poor decision).
Some direction would be nice I feel a bit lost lol.
1 step forward 3 steps back.
 

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Re: Fuel taken care of but more things to handle

Naj will be in in the morning. Follow his instructions to the letter do not wander away. Ex Chrysler man he knows more than he can forget. Ask for his help.
 

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Re: Fuel taken care of but more things to handle

But after 10 min I started to notice some slight white/grey smoke from the back of the engine near the turbo housing. It only seems to start when it warms up then persists for a few minutes after the engine is shut off. (Vehicle has been siting for at least a year and with replacing the clutch and starter I wouldn’t be surprised if I get the down pipe and bottom of turbo filthy/oily)

Checked codes again and there is quite the list. 12, 23, 32, 42, 46, 52.
If the smoke persists you will need to clean the engine, you may need to jack up the front so you can get under there with the engine degreaser and a brush (if needed) to get rid of all the crude.
Once the engine is clean you will be able to tell if you have any oil leaks and it also makes it much easier to work on when it is not loaded with oil and grease.

On to your fault codes.
12 -Battery Has Been Disconnected In the Last 50 Key Starts.
(Normal if you had the battery disconnected)
23-Air Charge Temp Sensor Circuit Voltage Is High or Low
32 -EGR Solenoid Circuit Open Or Shorted
42 -ASD Relay Circuit Open Or Shorted
(This code will set if you manually actuated the ASD Relay.)
46 - Battery Voltage Too High (Overcharging)
52 - Rich Exhaust Indication
(This code may be set by numerous things from fuel, ignition, engine mechanical and sensor issues)

First Step
1)Be sure your battery is fully charged.
2)Clear the codes.
3)Be sure the codes cleared before starting the engine.
(A Code 11 will be set and will go away once the car is started)
4)Start the car and allow the engine to run, you may need/want to drive a little and then recheck for fault codes.
5)Which, if any fault codes returned?
(Disregard Code 12)

If the Power Loss Lamp illuminates you have a "hard fault".
Shut the car off and check the codes.


Post Back
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Okay I unhooked the battery overnight the. Hooked it up again and let her run for 10 min give or take (didn’t really want to hit the road at all until Ive addresses as much as I can while the car sits) I’m only getting codes 23 and 46, power loss light remains on while it idles.

Also, distributor squeaks quite a bit I’m assuming it’s just a bushing or bearing in the housing. Can they be replaced or repaired easily? I’m asking because I haven’t been able to source a replacement housing at any chain locations.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Okay did some digging around the engine bay for things that looked suspicious. Started checking out the alternator and found wire R3 18DG wasn’t a stock wire (just a black wire) I followed it to the voltage regulator then wire J2 14DB goes directly to the negative battery terminal. Obviously someone has fooled with the wiring.

Thanks for the help, it’s been quite the project!
 

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So the vehicle had an external voltage regulator installed?

As far as the distributor noise I had the same "squeak" coming from my distributor and replaced it about 15 years ago.

Rock Auto is showing a "Return And Rebuild Service Only"
https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/dodge,1985,omni,2.2l+135cid+l4+turbocharged,1094497,ignition,distributor,7108

You can open a thread in the Parts Wanted section, or...

Remove the drive gear and remove the shaft, clean and lube the shaft (Anti-Seize) and inside the distributor housing and see what happens, you have nothing to lose.
 
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