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The one thing I would say is I would personally never leave that sound deadening material in the bottom of the pan. No matter how clean you think it is, the adhesive under the pan traps all sorts of debris in the pan. Below is a pan that pretty much looked as clean as yours until I removed it. There is like 14/15 spot welds to grind through to remove.
With your baffle during hard braking, there is nothing to hold the oil in the pan with your current design. Last couple pics are the oil pan baffle myself and another guy designed.
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The one thing I would say is I would personally never leave that sound deadening material in the bottom of the pan. No matter how clean you think it is, the adhesive under the pan traps all sorts of debris in the pan. Below is a pan that pretty much looked as clean as yours until I removed it. There is like 14/15 spot welds to grind through to remove.
With your baffle during hard braking, there is nothing to hold the oil in the pan with your current design. Last couple pics are the oil pan baffle myself and another guy designed.
View attachment 281163 View attachment 281164 View attachment 281166 View attachment 281167
Thank you. I didn't realize that was sounds deadening material. I should have removed it because After cleaning it i saw that it just kept oozing from behind those panels
 

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Agreed, the sound deadener is nasty stuff.

Many Engines failed after oil pans were hot tanked.

They looked clean but trouble lurked between the metal layers.

Hot tanking loosened the nasty stuff but didn't remove it.

It was just waiting to contaminate the Engine oil!!

Do hot tanks even exist any more??

Thanks
Randy
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
The one thing I would say is I would personally never leave that sound deadening material in the bottom of the pan. No matter how clean you think it is, the adhesive under the pan traps all sorts of debris in the pan. Below is a pan that pretty much looked as clean as yours until I removed it. There is like 14/15 spot welds to grind through to remove.
With your baffle during hard braking, there is nothing to hold the oil in the pan with your current design. Last couple pics are the oil pan baffle myself and another guy designed.
View attachment 281163 View attachment 281164 View attachment 281166 View attachment 281167
They are spot welded at the indents?
Also i was going to use the 2.2l oil pick up tube, the round one. I feel it will stick more oil. Straight up vs side suction. And what is the square tube on the pan?
The one thing I would say is I would personally never leave that sound deadening material in the bottom of the pan. No matter how clean you think it is, the adhesive under the pan traps all sorts of debris in the pan. Below is a pan that pretty much looked as clean as yours until I removed it. There is like 14/15 spot welds to grind through to remove.
With your baffle during hard braking, there is nothing to hold the oil in the pan with your current design. Last couple pics are the oil pan baffle myself and another guy designed.
View attachment 281163 View attachment 281164 View attachment 281166 View attachment 281167
Are they spot welded at the indents? Also what is the square tube in the tank? I was thinking of using the round pickup tube from my 2.2l. I figured it would suck more oil faster going straight up rather than a side pickup
 

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Yes the factory baffles are spot welded and glued to the pan. I usually mark them with a Sharpe pen so I know where exactly to grind. Just be careful not to go too deep should you decide to take the baffles out. I typically get it close then pry on it with a pry bar or X-large screwdriver and pop the last little bit holding it on.
Make sure you double check depth of any pickup you're going to use, esp. if your using a different pickup than what was designed for the pan. The factory pickups actually sit a little too close to the bottom IMO. I've even seen some oil pans not fit flush with the oil deck of the block, because the pickup tube is preventing it from sitting flat! I usually shoot for around 1/2" from bottom of pan. Factory is more like 1/4" at most or less. Heat up with heat wrench to adjust.
Square tube? You might be referring to the baffle I made to redirect the oil coming from the turbo return line. It sprays directly onto the spinning crank. Not good for windage, and a HP robber for sure. These are sort of tricky to make, as there isn't much room because of the spinning rod assemblies.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Yes the factory baffles are spot welded and glued to the pan. I usually mark them with a Sharpe pen so I know where exactly to grind. Just be careful not to go too deep should you decide to take the baffles out. I typically get it close then pry on it with a pry bar or X-large screwdriver and pop the last little bit holding it on.
Make sure you double check depth of any pickup you're going to use, esp. if your using a different pickup than what was designed for the pan. The factory pickups actually sit a little too close to the bottom IMO. I've even seen some oil pans not fit flush with the oil deck of the block, because the pickup tube is preventing it from sitting flat! I usually shoot for around 1/2" from bottom of pan. Factory is more like 1/4" at most or less. Heat up with heat wrench to adjust.
Square tube? You might be referring to the baffle I made to redirect the oil coming from the turbo return line. It sprays directly onto the spinning crank. Not good for windage, and a HP robber for sure. These are sort of tricky to make, as there isn't much room because of the spinning rod assemblies.
Update. Just bought a new pan from Rock auto. $29
 

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4 L-Bodies, how much for a copy of that pattern? My pan is almost alike, same shape, rear rail has only 5 bolt holes not 6, and does not have that vertical baffle in rear right corner but is the same bottom shape (84' 2.2L single point TBI), not concerned with cornering slosh, only windage issues...drag racing only, but our rules in Stock Elim. Do allow windage trays, but do not allow the actual pan modifacations No welding, so I would have to modify to either attach the tray as a bolt on to underside of the block or even to the frame rails/bolts of the pan to block and silicone the mating surface. More needed on the baffle side for the occasional heads up class race, we are more than known to run it a quart or more low in the pan (and the brains IMHO), just to help stop that horsepower robbing of windage to squeeze out that close win.

It looks like you folks got the oil drainback bottom baffles directing the flow right, and I would not steal your design without some type of compensation, then just modify it to fit my legal (by the rules package I must abide by), usage.
 

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The early pans are a bit different. They made them in both 4 and 5 quart designs. Your early 84 should probably have the 5 quart. The 5 quart pans used the larger pickup, while the 4 quart pans had a sump in the bottom of the pan and used a smaller pickup. I've done my share of those too. I'd be more than happy to share with you what I've done without compensation. That is what this forum is about.
Perhaps since you can't do any welding to the pan, you could make a design similar to Warren Stramer's? Here is a couple pics of his really nice windage and crack scraper design that bolts to block, not oil pan.
Another design was from the late Ed Peters. He used a coated screen bolted to the pan. This last pic below is a common block (non balance shaft) 4 quart pan.

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That is one amazing block! Do you know if that is ceramic paint? First off I was floored, then amazed at both the color coated inside of that engine block (have never thought about doing that ever, but I bet the oil just slides off all those surfaces smoothly where it does not need to have oil cling. And I love both of those designs, but the crank scraper and windage screen design is really beyond nice, no doubt did the job perfectly.

I take it those tapped attachment holes did not exist in the block originally, and he machined them and tapped them...must really need to have the oil and water passages details down pat to avoid hitting anything on the prep of the mounting holes, but 1/2"-3/4" studs is all that is needed, and easy to see he attached 3 bolts front, 2 rear, and the crank is easily clear since the pan is plenty deep and he kept the sump side clear for the oil pump and pickup.

Am going to my machinists shop tomorrow, where my short block is awaiting pistons from Ross and the further work, so will discuss it with him and review the pics with the required mounting points, see if I can get those 5 holes done also, I can fab the rest, and there is a very reasonable metals supplier and plasma cutter here in town I used for my fuel cell area bulkhead upper and lower, and hole blocker plates when I removed the firewall, and wiper items that cuts beautifully so I just do a final edge grind then they custom bend with their brakes perfectly.

Thank you for sharing, as it was just exactly what I was looking for. To see that is to want just that.

Forward motion brings all the oil to the rear sump area, the arch and scraper in coated screen form is perfect. And 8 bolts, 3 straps, and the screen light enough, and anti-HP robbing more than makes up for the added wt.

Wow.

Bottom 1 is also a very nice simple pc. But their rule is plain and simple, and enforced...Windage trays ok, but zero modifications to the oil pan. Some allowed aftermarket OEM fit pans though, but have not seen 1 yet, for the 2.2L I have, at least not yet.

And it is the 5 qt. Pan.
 

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Yeah Warren's vehicle is in a class by itself. Comfortably in the 9's (with more to come), out of 8V cylinder head with no power adders other than the turbo. I believe he uses Glyptal paint on the inside of block.
As far as the block is concerned the late common blocks lend themselves nicely to this style of windage tray and crank scraper as they have all this additional webbing in the bottom of the block. Also some holes are already made from the factory where the balance shaft carriage bolted to the block. There is no water in the webbing of the block, I've drilled them several times for four bolt mains.
Below is a common block and an early block side by side from the bottom.
Also notice the oval shaped oil hole for the oil pump in the block on Warren's engine and CB in picture. This matches the outlet of the oil pump. Ed Peters claimed several HP just mating these. I enlarge all of mine going into the oil filter cavity.
more HP to be gained by porting waterpump housings, and trimming waterpump blades. I've got lots of pics of those
mods too.
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And I am sure that my block is the one on the left also, but it is not here (at the machine shop waiting for the Ross pistons to arrive. But I will review all my teardown pics to see, as those holes he mounted the scraper and windage screen to are there on the right block, but there is no room for them on the left . A lot more meat around the cyls. on that right block in comparison for sure. I just looked, sure enough the only angle pic I missed taking was looking into bottom of the block, but an end on rear end shot I can see the rear facing side pan bolt holes protrude just exactly like that left block does.

I still had the dipstick tube in and allowed my machinish to remove it as the grommet was baked and brittle so I did not roll it all the way over, as it was on a pallet laying on the base of my hoist for disassembly and not bolted to my stand. Ty for the pics to compare.

Hergler1 How is your pan baffle project coming? Sry, I did not mean to hijack your thread, but getting some real valuable insight and much needed info, and lots of ideas, Ty brothers.
 
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