Turbo Dodge Forums banner

1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Administrator
Joined
·
4,016 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Alright first thing I noticed that the fan in my daytona (89 2.5 TI Intercooled, no air charge) switches on and off every couple of seconds constantly.

Now I just replaced the crank seal in it and had troubles timing it up according to the marks on the crank cog and I-shaft cog, nothing lined up when I pulled the timing belt off. End up timing it by TDC screwdriver and a timing light. When using the timing light every time the fan switched on the timing would bounce around, but fine when off.

My other problem, related, I have to advance/retard the distributor when I drive during the day (warm) and change it when I drive at night (cool) because the car will buck randomly when labouring the engine under slight throttle. This has only been since I replaced the crank seal.

NO engine codes, it is clear. I recently had TPS sensor problems but replaced it with a used unit and the code cleared.

Thoughts??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,602 Posts
Did you re-time the distributor after moving the i-shaft? Are you sure you got the cam timed correctly to the crank? For the most part, the i-shaft timing doesn't matter. You can always crank the distributor around to where it needs to be to run. But, the cam/crank timing has to be right.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
4,016 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Regarding the fan, no the CEL does not flash. The car was doing the fan issue before I tore the motor apart for the crank seal as well.

I must replace the cam seal in the car too I will verify timing when that happens because the car runs perfect, idle/half throttle/wot except randomly slight throttle during temperature change. When that happens I move the distrubtor slightly and it clears up, but I have to do it every night and day. Thanks for the thread link NAJ.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
4,016 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
I noticed in your thread NAJ that you have a long silver mark (not the short one) on the belt cover which lines up to a "fin" on the valve cover. Is this where your cam sprocket hole lines up to or the short mark. Mine has been lined up in-between, just after the fin your long silver mark is to. (Did that make sense?) If that's the case I would be one tooth off?

 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,341 Posts
The cam gear hole should align with the long mark. If the hole on yours is to the right of the mark then yes you're cam is probably advanced one tooth if you're sure the engine is at TDC.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
25,001 Posts
The fan will only cycle on/off if the controller thinks the A/C compressor is cycling on/off, the CEL is flashing on/off with the fan so the controller is seeing a hard fault that is coming/going or you have an issue with the ground control circuit in the relay circuit or the relay itself is faulty.
These relays still use breaker points, take the plastic cover off the relay and see if the points are burnt together.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
4,016 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
It is a factory non-A/C car, I hear the relay click on/off and it is at every 3 seconds faithfully all the time.

Car ran excellent all day yesterday, this morning was 0C out and what a dam pig it was to keep running and bucked like mad under light throttle no matter what I did. Argh.

I forget a few things, been awhile, if I unplug the coolant sensor should I see a change in idle?
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
25,001 Posts
If you are hearing the relay click on/off every 3 seconds the controller is seeing something that is causing it to cycle the fan.
Were you able to perform any diagnostics while the car was running poorly?
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
25,001 Posts
It did not actually solve your problems, it covered them up.
The only reason the car idles better is because you are in Failure(Limp In Mode)which keeps the fan on all the time and runs on a fixed open loop program.

Does the fan cycle all the time, hot and cold?
Refresh me on what other driveabilty symptoms are you experiencing?
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
4,016 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Fan cycles on off exactly 3 seconds on and 3 seconds off hot or cold, all the time.

When it is colder outside (early morning or late night) I have difficulty keeping the motor running at idle, it run fine with the occasional hesitation that sometimes stalls the engine.

During light throttle (example, cruising in 5th) the car will randomly buck or miss, worse when it is colder outside, barely when it is warmer outside. I still get this, but not as bad with the temp sensor disconnected.

No engine codes
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
25,001 Posts
You are going to have to supply me with some answers to engine basics.

1)Is fuel pressure correct and steady?
2)Is engine vacuum correct and steady?
3)With the engine running and CTS disconnected is ignition timing correct and is the mark fairly still/steady?
4)Is the Slot on the cam sprocket steady when you bring timing to 0 and shine the light thru the access hole?
5)Is Cam timing correct?
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
10,179 Posts
yellownoma said:
Now I just replaced the crank seal in it and had troubles timing it up according to the marks on the crank cog and I-shaft cog, nothing lined up when I pulled the timing belt off. End up timing it by TDC screwdriver and a timing light. When using the timing light every time the fan switched on the timing would bounce around, but fine when off.
If I read that right, you timed it wrong.

Easiest way to time your car, is to just loosen the t-belt tensioner. Get your cam where it should be (small hole pointing vertical in regards to motor-will look like its at 100-110 degrees due to engine tilt)

Get the crank at TDC (large slot in flywheel at 0* on trans timing slot)

Remove the distributor, and rotate the i-shaft till the slot in it lays perpendicular to the block.

Re-tension the belt, being sure the cam and crank stay put (usually the issue is the cam shifting)

Then reinstall the distributor with the flat end facing you, parrallel to the block.

Disconnect the CTS and start your car. The CEL WILL be on, and your fan WILL be running.

This (as stated above) forces the car to run in a fixed loop, with no computer controlled timing adjustments due to idle, air pressure, temperature, etc.

Time to 14* BTDC, with your timing light, light should be solid and steady, and the mark should stay dead on every flash. If its not, you may have another issue at hand, which will be adressed later.

And I would have to disagree with 4 Daytonas. The cam gear hole should align with the left, small mark NAJ has on his cover. If you rotated that engine vertical as if it was on a stand, you would see the long mark is about ~10 degrees advanced. The small mark is vertical.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
25,001 Posts
The long line is where the cam slot should be aligned.

Did you not see the link to a thread for Cam Timing in post #3?
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
4,016 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
I say the small mark is where I have the slot in the cam gear right now, I did however TDC by feel of screwdriver only, did not even think of looking at the flywheel for TDC, duh. I also timed it to 12*..

Fuel pressure is 55psi, steady
Vacuum exceeds 15 and steady

The rest I got to find out, as I do not have a timing light myself. Thanks for tips guys.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
25,001 Posts
The small mark was put there when i was trying to determine the angle of the head which by the way is 84 degree angle.
The long mark is where the slot in the Cam should be aligned.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
4,016 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Well timing has been corrected, vac and fuel pressure good.. but

I still have the problem with the fan turning on and off every 3 seconds (very annoying, car does not overheat or overcool though, but the relay won't last long on-off that much!)

No fault codes

and only ~2-3 psi of boost on a mitsu w/ stock 2.5T cal :(

Vacuum lines and pvc all have been replaced with new and routed as per factory vacuum diagram

Thoughts?
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
25,001 Posts
Remove and plug the vacuum line to the wastegate and go for a ride.
If you can now build boost the issue is with boost control.
If you still cannot build boost the problem is with the wastegate, charge piping or BOV.

Disconnect the relay and when coolant temp reaches above 212 degrees plug the relay in, the controller should be requesting the fan to cycle on, does it still cycle on/off or stay on until the temp drops?
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top