PT lifters and Taft cams won't work

Are you saying that you need to shim the PT lifters farther to work with a Taft cam? Do the stock lifters need to be shimmed to work with a Taft cam?

... if not, then I don't understand John.

John,

Try to find a set of lifters from a Mitsu 2.0 turbo motor to compare. I believe they are a little longer than the stock lifter, but what amount I do not recall. I looked at a set of these a long time ago and thought they may work with the TAFT cams, depending on the grind.

John B said:

I have discovered much to my dismay that I cannot use the PT lifters with my Taft cam. The total shimming required causes the lifter's upper piston sleeve to extend past the top of the lifter bore. That means that it will spew oil like Saudi Arabia. So, how do I get the lifter caps off so that I can swap the PT tops into the old lifter bottoms? I've tried prying them off but no success. Any ideas?

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Thanks for the tip; I'll look into it. Meanwhile, how do I get these suckers apart?

puppet said:

Are you saying that you need to shim the PT lifters farther to work with a Taft cam? Do the stock lifters need to be shimmed to work with a Taft cam?

... if not, then I don't understand John.

Click to expand...

Yes, the Taft S1 is a regrind and has to be shimmed .046" with stock lifters. The PT's are .160" shorter already, so we're looking at .200" shimming which, unfortunately, brings the lifter up so high out of the bore that it will spew oil from the side. :bang head Any ideas on how to get these things apart?

Does anyone know the spec to shim the lifters on teh S2? My S3 from FWD came with spacers, the S2 didn't? I've ran it for a while now and don't have any shims on the lifter bores... maybe that's why my top end is slightly noisier than I think it should be.

Thanks!

Aaron M
'86 SC
13.4 @ 114, 2.5 60'

John B said:

I have discovered much to my dismay that I cannot use the PT lifters with my Taft cam. The total shimming required causes the lifter's upper piston sleeve to extend past the top of the lifter bore. That means that it will spew oil like Saudi Arabia. So, how do I get the lifter caps off so that I can swap the PT tops into the old lifter bottoms? I've tried prying them off but no success. Any ideas?

Click to expand...

pics? I've never seen this unless the "shim" was too wide and it didn't seat to the bottom of the lifter bore. Did you add more shim to make up for a smaller cam center diameter? You can only lift them to match stock height. The seal ring is pressed, you would have to get new ones and the tool to crimp them.

John B said:

Yes, the Taft S1 is a regrind and has to be shimmed .046" with stock lifters. The PT's are .160" shorter already, so we're looking at .200" shimming which, unfortunately, brings the lifter up so high out of the bore that it will spew oil from the side. :bang head Any ideas on how to get these things apart?

Click to expand...

Oops, didn't read far enough! Say,,,,, did you consider using lash caps to shim the valve end?

Lash caps are definitely the ticket. You get better rocker angle and the adjusters don't stick up. You may have to widen the valve slot on the rocker slightly so the caps slide freely.

mock_glh said:

Lash caps are definitely the ticket. You get better rocker angle and the adjusters don't stick up. You may have to widen the valve slot on the rocker slightly so the caps slide freely.

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depends on the caps too, the set I got from Fearra fit fine.

John B said:

Yes, the Taft S1 is a regrind and has to be shimmed .046" with stock lifters.

Click to expand...

I did not know this.

mock_glh said:

Lash caps are definitely the ticket. You get better rocker angle and the adjusters don't stick up. You may have to widen the valve slot on the rocker slightly so the caps slide freely.

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How is it better? I figured stock geometry was best? How does it help with the rocker tilted toward the adjuster?

John B said:

How is it better? I figured stock geometry was best? How does it help with the rocker tilted toward the adjuster?

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I hear you change the lift ratio between lifted at the lash or lifted at the valve. Ford 2.3 guys have been doing this for many years to change ratio's. The base circle is allot smaller. At a machine shop they would leave the valve stems long to match it up (if room exists for that much). Lifting the lash adjuster increases lift and lifting the valve decreases lift through ratio. How much on a 2.2? Don't know

Interesting, where can i obtain the lash caps? I'm after the most lift I can get without increasing duration and overlap.

Oops, I misread. You say I need to raise the lifter in relation to the stem. So, I need a tall lifter of some kind, and a lower valve stem, right? I'm unclear how that changes lift. I can see how the cam timing will be advanced and retarded by changing geometry, and I can see how valve side loading will be changed , but why is lift affected?

Lift is effected as your lifter needs to be shimmed .046 further up so when you take into account all the ratio's, your losing lift too!

Say it ain't so! When Steve did my head he left my valve high on the seat so the valve stem is a tad low already. Bringing the lifter up to take out the added lash from the regrind does tilt the rocker down toward the stem compared to stock. If that adds lift (?) due to the angle, good. I don't see how though. I don't see how I could lose lift through rocker angle either, but I can be conceptually challenged at times. :welloh:

John B said:

Oops, I misread. You say I need to raise the lifter in relation to the stem. So, I need a tall lifter of some kind, and a lower valve stem, right? I'm unclear how that changes lift. I can see how the cam timing will be advanced and retarded by changing geometry, and I can see how valve side loading will be changed , but why is lift affected?

Click to expand...

just try the lash caps first, FM sells them. Use just the washers with the PT units and no spacer, then run a lash cap. Lift is effected because the lobe hits in a different place on the follower, but it isn't changed allot, it is minor. Our ratio is real high anyway, around 1.8:1, I don't think I would try to get closer to a 2:1 ratio on the follower with a raised lifter anyway. BMW uses a rocker that slides and tilts to completely change valve timing and lift with one cam with one set of lobes. I wouldn't stress it, I would try the lash caps and see.

Good idea, I'll give it a shot.

D&*M! These PT lifters better be good. The lash caps are $64.00 a set!!