[rts289]

Really hoping someone can help me with my monster...

I am building a little tube frame autocross car and I have used the following items:
A TII 2.2 w/new clutch, pressure plate, etc.
A 568 trans. w/Quaife limited slip

The 2.2 came out of a CSX/P-body which I was able to drive around with no transmission/clutch issues.
I don't know what the 568 came from (date on the tag is 9/89) but I had it - so I used it instead of the stock transaxle.

Here are the issues:
I can raise the car, start it and put it in gear. The Left tire rotates. The Right does not. I can shift gears and it rotates faster. I can put it in nuetral and it continues to rotate. I can easily stop it with my hand or foot (I only did this in nuetral and first as it is spinning pretty quick in second and higher). When I release it - it starts spinning again.

I can put the car on the ground, start it, and put it in gear. The car does not move... but on a flat surface it 'feels' like it wants to roll forward but doesn't, regardless of throttle speed.

When the car is not running I can put the car in gear and push it up the driveway AND when I raise the Left side and turn the wheel I hear a (don't laugh) mooing sound (as in cow). The pully on the engine does NOT turn when the car is off, in gear and being pushed up the driveway and I do NOT feel any engine compression. The halfshaft seem to be securely in place.

I only have a little bit of oil in the transaxle. I have not filled it in anticipation of taking the frame away from the engine to have the frame painted.

I'm wondering if I don't have some sort of input shaft issue (but don't know why the wheel is turning at all.....). Before I tear it all apart --- I figured I would check with the experts first. Thoughts? Advice? Experiments to try?

 

[tryingbe]

Did you take apart to inspect the A568 before you put it in the car?

Are you sure your RIGHT side of the CV shaft is not broken? When the car is jack up, what happens if you turn the RIGHT wheel clock wise?

 

[xtrempickup]

did you install the Quiffee or did you have it installed professionally?

 

[rts289]

I did not inspect the transaxle and I am unsure who did the installation on the limited slip.
When raised in the air the right wheel turns as freely as the left, but does not rotate when the engine is running. The CV shafts are fine.

 

[xtrempickup]

im pretty sure you have something thats not working right.

 

[tryingbe]

Time to take the transmission out.

 

[rts289]

Finally got around to working on this again. Instead of taking the transmission out just yet - I took the cover off the back of the transmission and tried to turn the ring gear with the transmission in gear (1st, 2nd, 5th, reverse). I can not turn it.

I took the transmission out of gear and I can turn it freely. There is a little bit of gear noise (which I would think is normal). Nothing grinding. All the teeth look to be perfect. Everything inside is spotless (no metal shavings anywhere).

I think this means the shaft from the engine is engaging the flywheel (which is what I thought was my problem originally).

So I'm back to asking for technical advice from you guys. Any experiments to try while I have the back cover off?

 

[Reaper1]

Did you modify the passenger's side axle to fit in the Quaife? For using a Quaife in a 555/568 you are supposed to have to cut about 1/4" off the sline end that goes in to the diff. If you didn't do this, that *may* cause an issue, but I don't know exaclt ythe symptoms of what it would cuase besides the axle may not seal wit the axle seal in the tailshaft....

 

[2.216vturbo]

IMO you are going to have to pull the trans... I suspect (just a guess though) the center of the clutch hub has twisted away from the disc, I've had it happen once to a stock disc and a local guy had the same problem with an aftermarket (Clutchnet IIRC) disc. I think there is just enough friction interference to spin the trans in nuetral but with a load on it, it slips.
Remember if you need a new clutch/disc, it's gonna be a small spline 568...

Of course if you don't want to deal with it, I'll buy the trans off you

Alan

 

[kermit]

Isn't there a issue with the length of clutch cables between the A525/A555 and the A523/A568? Seems like the clutch might just not be releasing all of the way.

I believe that the Quaife requires both wheels to be on the ground to have limited slip functionality. Probably why only one wheel spins.

 

[rts289]

To eliminate the possible issue of the clutch cables - I tried it with the shifter/cables and I also tried it by moving the controls on the transmission by hand.


Transmission is out!
Only minor scrapes and a very small amount of blood loss - so I'll call it a victory!

The throwout bearing looks fine. The shaft appears to be the same size as the hole on the block. The clutch appears to be in good condition.
....and now I'm really confused. I'll pull the clutch off tomorrow and examine it more closely.

 

[phantomrt]

I believe that the Quaife requires both wheels to be on the ground to have limited slip functionality. Probably why only one wheel spins.

I don't have a Quaife, but I have an OBX which is of the same design. With both front wheels in the air, engine running, transmission in 1st (or any) gear you cannot stop one wheel without the other wheel stopping. It is impossible or darn near impossible. Let one side of the car onto the ground and you WILL drive off of the jackstand.

It sounds like this transmission has an open differential. Otherwise, there would be no way for one wheel to spin and the other not to. I think you got ripped off.

 

[2.216vturbo]

I don't have a Quaife, but I have an OBX which is of the same design. With both front wheels in the air, engine running, transmission in 1st (or any) gear you cannot stop one wheel without the other wheel stopping. It is impossible or darn near impossible. Let one side of the car onto the ground and you WILL drive off of the jackstand.

It sounds like this transmission has an open differential. Otherwise, there would be no way for one wheel to spin and the other not to. I think you got ripped off.

Not entirely true. I have both a Quaife and an OBX so I agree that they both work in the same way. They look the same (although the OBX has one less planetary gear) But remember the Quaife (and the OBX) are "ATB" limited slip diffs. Automatic Torque Biasing, the way I understand it, the side that is slipping needs to have SOME resistance as in not freespinning on jackstands to bias (multiply right?) the torque and spin both sides of the diff. So using that logic, one wheel on ice and one wheel on dry pavement both should spin equally, or very nearly equal.

Alan

 

[kermit]

^^ +1

 

[Juggy]

Did you modify the passenger's side axle to fit in the Quaife? For using a Quaife in a 555/568 you are supposed to have to cut about 1/4" off the sline end that goes in to the diff. If you didn't do this, that *may* cause an issue, but I don't know exaclt ythe symptoms of what it would cuase besides the axle may not seal wit the axle seal in the tailshaft....

is this true?? I need some more info on this.......I have a quaife going into my trans VERY soon....

 

[rts289]

More tests - let's see if this new information helps at all.

I sat the transmission on the floor of the garage with the back cover off so I could observe the ring gear. I then installed both axles. The transmission was in neutral. I turned the input shaft by hand and the ring gear turned with no resistance. I put the transmission in gear and I could still turn the input shaft which turned the ring gear, but this time there was some resistance. The axles did not turn.
I am now sure the input shaft was working when mated to the engine (since one wheel turned when I had it together running and basically had the ring gear turning when I turned the input shaft by hand).
I also think that eliminated the possibility of it being the clutch.
With those eliminated I think I'm down to the actual quaife unit as my culprit.

Am I on the right path? Does anybody have any other suggestions? I did a quick search on the internet but I don't really fit into the Frequently Asked Questions catagory.
Anybody have a phone number/email of a shop that sets these up?

I haven't thanked anybody for the help yet --- So THANK YOU! We're getting closer (I hope)!!!

 

[kermit]

if the trans is on the ground, pull apart the diff and see how the lsd looks...if it is an lsd

 

[phantomrt]

Alan, I have to disagree because I've tried it in my own garage. Go lift the front of your car and give it the test.

Maybe my diff isn't working right, but I like it the way it is. I spent over an hour looking it while I had it apart and I THINK I figured out how it works, but then maybe not. Age is gettin' to me. I can't even remember. But the idea that one wheel has to have SOME resistance sounds logical, but that resistance is generated by those bellville washers inside, isn't it?

 

[Kevin]

Not entirely true. I have both a Quaife and an OBX so I agree that they both work in the same way. They look the same (although the OBX has one less planetary gear) But remember the Quaife (and the OBX) are "ATB" limited slip diffs. Automatic Torque Biasing, the way I understand it, the side that is slipping needs to have SOME resistance as in not freespinning on jackstands to bias (multiply right?) the torque and spin both sides of the diff. So using that logic, one wheel on ice and one wheel on dry pavement both should spin equally, or very nearly equal.

Alan

The helical diffs are torque biasing. I've always understood this as lifting a wheel will mean the car spins the lifted wheel until it sets back down and there is resistance so the diff does it's thing.

I'm not reading anything that sounds like the OP has a problem.

EDIT: Never mind OP this is not normal operation for your differential I should have read more carefully. Sounds like the diff is messed up as you were suspecting.

 

[Reaper1]

Juggy, read Cliff Ramsdell's site. He has a article written specifically for the axle thing for Quaife's...