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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My Shelby Lancer seems to have a miss fire on occasion while driving on the highway.
It happens around 3000 RPM, I can see the Tachometer go wonky when it skips
a beat.

I have 3 distributor hall effects transducers in my used parts bin, is there a way to test them?
-- Note that I bought a new one, a "Standard", but it was dead on arrival.

I have one original Mopar unit, it seems to have the most resistance between terminals
on the black connector and the white connector.
-- 1 Megaohms on one side, and 1.5 Megaohms on the other.

Let me know if anyone has tested their Hall Effects traducer.

Best Regards
 

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Are you getting any codes? Sometimes the power module can be the problem as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
NAJ / d_Snook,
Thank you for the help, I did pull the codes, there was a "54" No Distributor Synch Present

I cleaned the connector, installed a new old stock Chrysler Hall Effects, 5226531-84401.

I also noticed my negative battery terminal seemed loose and I actually replaced the terminal.

Having the test instructions is fantastic, thank you again!

Best Regards, Philip
PS: I can't believe the new one from "Standard" was bad
 

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I had two SMP HEP's that were faulty.
First one lasted about a week and started acting up, Rock Auto sent me another and that was bad right out of the box, no start condition, sent that back also.
I was using my "Known Good Spare" and needed another known good working HEP, I was working at AZ at the time so I bought and installed a Duralast HEP (Manufactured by Wells Electronics), this HEP has been in the car since June 2017 without issue... KNOCK ON WOOD!!!

From what I have seen and heard is that SMP uses "Sub-Contractors" to help keep up with supply, these components are supposed to be "Quality Controlled", HEP's are the only part I have had issues with from SMP.
I also noticed that HEP's manufactured by SMP have "Standard" or "SMP" stamped on the underside, no stamp = Unknown Manufacturer...

Funny you should mention a loose - battery cable.
I had a very, very intermittent issue where while cruising the car would "hiccup" and the tach needle would jump, I was thinking HEP and then found the - battery cable was loose, tightened it up and no issue since, again...
KNOCK ON WOOD!!!
 

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I've had the same aftermarket hep for 30 odd years.. it HAS been in every turbo mopar I've ever owned including the current one that arrived with a bad hep..

it might be a wells part .. I can't say for sure .. I'd seen them on the store shelves back in the early 90's but the one I have came used from the auto wreckers

notably it has somewhat wide RUBBER insolated leads coming from it.. they look like small extension cord cables with a grouve molded into the insolation

the leads are still soft and rubber-ie after all these years..

and I never buy the same part that is the original source of the problem..
no mopar heps .. no ford coils for my truck .. they fail .. I don't buy them

and that right there is usually the issue .. the o-e ones used what amounts to telephone wiring for those leads..HARD outer insolation and tiny little wires inside..
insolation sadly is stronger than the copper strands so when bent the casing breaks the wires inside..
I personally always started by throwing the mopar garbage in the round file where it justly belonged..
 

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I also wrap the wiring with electrical tape, especially where it exits the distributor to prevent bending of the wires, then the harness is placed in convoluted tubing and secured to the main harness to prevent vibration.
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I drove the car on Friday, and it seemed much better, I'm concerned that I did get one hickup when it was cold, but maybe that was unrelated? I'll drive it more. I did check into "Duralast" and ordered an Ignition pick-up from them. sadly what I got was a "standard" pickup in a Duralast box. It does look better built that the Standard pickups I purchased from RockAuto that did not work.
Wood Font Gas Rolling stock Machine
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I had a related thought to all this, I put the car on the Snap-On monitor and there are no codes, but the O2 sensor does seem to bounce now and then. I took a video of the monitor, it will be running steady state on the highway
at 0.53 volts at 2600 rpm, and then it jumps to 0.06 volts and back to 0.53 volts.

Not sure if that's a serious issue, but I do know that car runs rich. I have turned down the fuel pressure
regulator and the mixture is better when you are under full boost, but it clears is rich at idle.

Best Regards, CSXVNT12



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If the HEP you got has SMP stamped on the underside then that HEP was actually manufactured by SMP, meaning it should be better quality than the Chinese sub-contractors.

In closed loop operation (idle and no load cruise) the O2 sensor voltage should always be moving, it should always be crossing above/below .450 volts.
The reason for this is that the controller is attempting to maintain a stochiometric A/F ratio of 14.7/1 (.450 volts) when in closed loop.
Below .450 is lean, above .450 is rich.
IE: If the voltage drops below .450 volts (lean) the controller increases injector pulse (in very small increments to get back to .450 volts, once the voltage goes above .450 volts the controller will decrease injector pulse width until it falls under .450 volts, the process repeats itself over and over.
The O2 sensor is ignored during open loop operation...
Cold engine, acceleration, WOT, deceleration, these are all open loop fixed programs in the controller software.
On an OBD 1 vehicle (95 and below) the O2 sensor does not have the ability to make the vehicle run "black rich", a faulty O2 sensor will generally only cause higher CO emissions and lower fuel economy.

Running rich will/can be caused by high fuel pressure, Map/CTS calibration, leaking injector(s) injectors too large for the application or wrong engine controller.

Do you have a Wideband A/F gauge?
That is what you need to properly adjust fuel pressure, 14.7/1 @ idle/no load cruise, 11/1 at WOT, the factory runs richer than that for engine safety reasons.
 

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our cars do burp and fart occasionally .. as long as it didn't feel "glitchy" it probably doesn't matter

if you're new to this you need to know too the idle speed will vary when you let the car run extended amounts of time

it will speed up or slow down the idle speed..
this was intended to help keep the engine clean and avoid it getting polluted inside with blow by gasses and oil film
 

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One time I had a random miss in my '89 Lancer Shelby and it turned out to be the sparkplug wires! Another time it was the distributor cap. It had worn away the center electrode. Nowadays I try to be very careful with sparkplugs. I use a graphite threadlube and I avoid touching them inadvertently creating a skin-oil pathway to ground. I use the moisture barrier on top of the plugs, too. Occasionally I like to pull the plugs and try to read them. If the gap is too big, the high pressure of the turbo can really squash the spark, so I do not go for really big gaps. It might be a myth that large gaps can improve mpg, because any consistent misfire can really screw up your fuel economy more than a big gap can help. The Champions work as well as any other plug I've tried including the NGK GR-4s. Sometimes the basics are worth checking just to be on the safe side. I passed DEQ even though the car had an odd idle like Dr. Johnny Dodge describes
above. I also do not like advancing the timing to 14 or 15 degrees before TDC as Forward Motion suggests, since it will trap more heat inside the combustion chamber and make the engine run hotter.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
So I ordered a Hall Effects crank sensor from Duralast and from Napa and here is what I received...
1) The Duralast sensor has the Standard logo on it, and looks better built.
2) The Napa part was shipped directly from Standard Products, so same manufacturer, but
the one I received has no logo on it.

Mopar 5226531:

Center to left 1.04Mohms
Center to Right 1.6Mohms

Duralast CR121:
Center to left 0.568Mohms
Center to Right 0.955Mohms

Napa Echlan MP824
Center to left 0.550Mohms
Center to Right 1.057Mohms

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it looks like, the duralast has the soft grooved leads mine has and the other looks more like the oem phone cable wiring..but hard to say even enlarged on a 50" screen ..

if so I'd try the duralast & hope it's the same as what I have

which was a used wrecker's part when I scooped it in '92-'93-ish..
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Naj,
You encouraged me to break out my LM-2 O2 sensor and do some recording!

I'm only running 10-PSI Boost, wish I had the boost gauge integrated with the LM-2, but here you go...
Top two graphs should be the same, not sure why they aren't..
a) Standard Injectors, 55 PSI Fuel Rail Pressure
b) UpHill
c) Each is Shift at 6000, You can see shift to 2nd, 3rd, and 4th in the RPM data
d) FWD Performance Stage-II upgrade chip


Botton left
a) +20 Injectors, 40 PSI at the fuel rail
b) same ECU chip, same road, same weather, etc.

The Plus 20 injectors were way too rich, they also made the car idle really funky. Not sure why
The top left and top right are not closer, but I suspect I hit WOT on the top right chart and that's
when it went rich.

Note that it doesn't run perfectly, when the boost comes on it occasionally stumbles, and then take off again.
-- There is no spike in the AFR so not sure what the stumble is? Spark?
-- Note, the car does have the original coil.

Best Regards, Philip

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If you are thinking you may have an ignition issue not being able to keep up with KV requirements under load then you need to check the systems ability to do so.
Normal KV requirements are 10-15 KV @ idle/cruise.
As cylinder pressure increases so do KV requirements.
Unless you have access to a dyno and oscilloscope the easiest way to do that is with an adjustable spark tester, you manually increase load and KV requirements by increasing the gap size.


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