[Glhs60]

My Omni has run perfectly since installing the S60 wiring back in 1997.

It was nice day so I decided to go to the car wash and clean him up.

A few miles from home it bucked a couple of times and stalled out.

I hitched a ride home, grabbed a fuel pressure tester and a spare HEP.

Back at the car I attached the FP gauge, gave it a try and fired it up.

Fuel pressure was fine so I started home and same thing again.

I swapped out the HEP, fired right up and once more I headed home.

Home I decided to run down my road a bit and it started acting up again.

Eyes were glued to the tach as a dropping tach was my HEP test.

4 K RPM, the tach needle was steady but it bucked and stalled out.

Almost home, I had to use my old quad to push it inside the shop.

I checked codes and got a code 43, never saw that one before??

I researched 43 as best as I could, it seems to be ignition or SMEC related.

The wiring is in excellent condition and the grounds are all in place.

I'm still working with only 1/2 a brain and one hand after my stroke.

So now I'm kindly looking for any advice on tracking down this issue.

Questions:


1: Never had a SMEC go bad, has anyone had one go bad like this??

2: I've never had a coil go bad, has anyone had one go bad like this?

(It's the 1990+ style that mounts with the thermostat housing.)

3: One lead should have 12 v, the other flash with the Engine cranking?

4: If the coil lead flashes does that eliminate the HEP and SMEC?

5: Can I jump the diagnostic connector to activate the starter?

Thanks
Randy

 

[GLHS0815]

My 89 csx would run fine for a few miles and start bucking then dying after a fuell pump change. I ended up putting a fuel pressure gauge on the car and drove it with the gauge taped to a wiper arm. Sure enough I could watch the fuel pressure drop while driving until it died. Fired it up and I could hear the pump cycling on/off and fuel pressure matched it. Replaced fuel pump again and has driven fine since.

In my case I don't remember codes, but believe the pump was overheating and quitting. Once cooled it would work for a little bit then repeated the above.

 

[Glhs60]

I appreciate your reply and that's why I checked fuel pressure first.

My F/P tester has a long hose, I did the same as you, driving & watching.

Fuel pressure is fine the tach doesn't drop when the Engine is bucking.

I ran it at 4K RPM and the tach needle stayed steady, even while bucking.

It stayed steady when the Engine stalled as I left it in gear rolling along.

The tach kept track of the not running Engine as the Engine rotated.!!

I put the clutch down the tach dropped as the Engine stopped rotating.

Now I'm curious where the tach gets its signal, from the HEP??

It seemed to come to life after a cooling off, rest period.

Just like a F/P but pressure remains fine.

Could a faulty coil act in this way??

Thanks
Randy

PS: Trying to figure out if jumping the diagnostic connector can activate the starter?

It's been sitting all night now so I'll try to start it later on.

It wouldn't start last night after I pushed it in my shop.

 

[GLHS0815]

Randy,

Sorry, I saw where you hooked a gauge up but missed where you said pressure was fine.

 

[NAJ]

You cannot use the diagnostic connector to actuate the starter, that can only be done with the key or a remote starter switch.
You can manually actuate the ASD Relay to check the circuit operation.

Do you have a Code 43 stored in memory?, If Yes...
Code 43 is the Ignition Coil Control Circuit.
The engine controller controls the ground side of the coil primary circuit.
Code 43 may be caused by a faulty coil, wiring issues, controller issues.
Yes, while cranking the + coil should have a constant 12 volts, if it does not there is an issue with the HEP Circuit or ASD Relay Circuit.
If you have constant 12 volts at the + coil, use a 12 volt test lamp connected to the - coil and ground, crank the engine, the test lamp should flash on/off.
1)Does the test lamp flash on/off?
2)Does the test lamp illuminate but not flash on/off?
3)Does the test lamp not illuminate at all.
I usually backprobe the connector, connect the alligator clip to the backprobe pin (or paperclip) and place the test lamps probe into the - battery terminal, then you can see it from inside the car.

You may also want to perform an engine running wiggle test on the HEP wiring to see if that duplicates the problem.

 

[Glhs60]

Hi Jan:

I hope all is well with you and family.

Thanks for responding and the info. on the diagnostic connector.

Starting fresh today, I have no power to the coil and no flashing.

I do have fuel pressure and can hear the fuel pump humming away.

Yesterday I thought I had a code 43 but today it seems to be 42.

I'm doing the key dance and may possibly have made a mistake.

This car is an Omni with a MP S60 SMEC style wiring harness.

As such, it's a really crowded Engine compartment for me!

Any input is gratefully appreciated !!

Thanks
Randy

 

[d_snook6]

I definitely had a power module go on me before, very similar issues. The if you have another smec you can just swap the power modules and keep your logic module as they are separate inside of the smec case.
But first be sure of those codes, 42 could be just as simple as the asd relay itself.

 

[Glhs60]

So this evening I changed the SMEC and it started right up.

Ran it for a couple of minutes, turned it off, and no restart.

Checked codes and got a 42 and 54 so I swapped the HEP.

Started fine and ran for a while with no issues or codes.

But, being the ADD type I am I had to test the coil for blinks.

It's the newer 1991+ style coil with the small connector.

But I might have made a mistake, I probed both at the same time.

Only 1 test light lit up and it didn't blink, it just lit up.

They should be checked separately, right??

I'll have to test them separately tomorrow.

Then, I'll chance another test drive.

Thanks
Randy

 

[NAJ]

If you manually actuated the ASD Relay that will set a Code 42 in memory.

If the car starts and runs then the - side of the coil will be flashing on/off.

Yes, just backprobe the - coil terminal with the test lamp connected to ground.
The problem with a test lamp is that the bulb does not have enough time to completely turn off so it may appear as a flicker rather than a complete on/off.

 

[Glhs60]

Thinking I had my Engine all figured out, I decided to go for a short drive.

I let the car idle for about an hour, then drove it around my yard a bit.

What could go wrong?? I giggled like a school girl, so proud of myself.

Same spot as before, it bucked a bit, and again I coasted to a stop.

Still about 100 ft from my shop, all uphill with a sharp left.

Again, I enlisted my old quad to gently push him inside.

Code 42 !! I thought I went through this already??

Swapped in another AIS relay it fired right up.

BUT, WITH A BIG BONUS THIS TIME !!!!!

My previously inoperable gas gauge is now working ?

It hadn't worked since I got the car running again last fall.

Each time it stalled, I maintained proper, steady fuel pressure.

Somehow the AIS is seemingly in control of the L body gas gauge??

Defective AIS keeps the fuel pump pumping but cancelling something.?

This may be too complicated for my stroke riddled brain to figure out.

Or, it may be some kind of un-understandable to me, cruel coincidence.

If anyone can explain, please do. I'm ecstatic to have a gas gauge.

But, will it now drive with out bucking and stalling like before?

Tomorrow, I'll put on my little boy, short pants and try again.

Big boy, long pants are too hot for pushing my car around.

Thanks
Randy

 

[motomick76]

Been watching this thread, just to learn. Sounds like you figured it out, persistence paid off. I wonder if the coil in the relay was grounding after getting warm. Sometimes coils, transformers, etc, will not fault until they are warm. When warm it could leak enough voltage/current into the ground to cause issues, but not blow a fuse.

 

[NAJ]

What year electronics are we working with?

 

[Glhs60]

1988 SMEC in a 1986 Omni, MP Super 60 Engine harness.

Thanks
Randy

What year electronics are we working with?

 

[Glhs60]

Thanks for watching, it possibly seems a bit disjointed, result of a stroke.

I try to post in an order that I can keep track of, it keeps confusion at bay.

Heat might be an issue I thought and idled it in the sun for over an hour.

It ran fine but acted up shortly after driving a bit, several times now.

Now I'm guessing the ASD was affected by driving vibrations.?

The great part is my gas gauge works after replacing the ASD

I was thinking my gas gauge would be a separate, tough issue.

How I don't know but there must be a direct (DC) connection?

Somehow fuel pressure remained fine throughout all this.

I always figured a faulty ASD would stop the fuel pump.

I'm electronics dumb but have a determined nature.

Each time I changed something it worked for awhile.

Now I'm curious if an ASD can somehow reset itself.

I'll be retrying the replaced parts once its sorted out.

ADD makes my verify bad parts are actually bad.

That's the benefit of having lots of spare parts.

I sure hope the ASD is actually the culprit.!!

Eventually I'll be back to backing it.

Process of elimination.

Slow but reliable.

I hope!!

Thanks
Randy.

Been watching this thread, just to learn. Sounds like you figured it out, persistence paid off. I wonder if the coil in the relay was grounding after getting warm. Sometimes coils, transformers, etc, will not fault until they are warm. When warm it could leak enough voltage/current into the ground to cause issues, but not blow a fuse.

 

[NAJ]

I am not familiar with the S-60 wiring harness, I assume the wiring was plug and play and all chassis wiring back to the fuel tank is still original?

 

[Glhs60]

Right, the Super 60 Engine harness was sold by Chrysler's M/P

It's 1988 electronics are plug and play to run a SMEC in a Turbo L body.

Turbo L bodys used the same 40 pin bulkhead connector as non Turbo's

SMEC Engine harnesses are based on 50 pin bulkhead connectors.

The rest of the interior and chassis wiring are all unmolested original.

Thanks
Randy

I am not familiar with the S-60 wiring harness, I assume the wiring was plug and play and all chassis wiring back to the fuel tank is still original?

 

[NAJ]

In an attempt to explain why your fuel gauge suddenly started working after the ASD Relay issue was resolved...
If I am reading this correctly, it appears that your primary pump and sending unit are both in one unit with a 3 pin connector (?).
DG/BK - ASD Relay Input
GY - Ground for the Pump and Sending Unit
DB - Power to the Cluster Cavity 7, Fuel Gauge.

 

[Glhs60]

Right Jan:

The intank hanger holds the fuel pump and the gas gauge sending unit.

The ASD has 83159 cast in the plastic housing. I have several others the same.

Some are slightly different and don't plug in directly . 83159 must be a generic number??

I had mine screwed to the shock tower but most others have a grommet with push pin??

Are ASD relays supposed to be rubber mounted to protect against vibration?

As mentioned, I never lost fuel pressure but it would sputter and stall.

Randomly, like overnight, it would start and do the same thing again.

When I unbolted the ASD I thought I heard a thung noise from it.

Like something inside it released? May have been imagination.

Thanks
Randy
.