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Stage 2 Build Thread (Going beyond the 20psi mod)

Performance Mod 
13K views 7 replies 6 participants last post by  Caliberltd 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
By now you've owned your TD for some time. You've become familiar with proper maintenance, keeping your oil clean and fluids topped up. You Always run the proper octane fuel and you Never shut it down HOT after boosting!
Your ECU is happy seeing NO codes and your use to monitoring your gages on a regular basis.

You've taken some steps toward 20psi/ Stage 1/ 3 bar, Or maybe you've been running 20psi for some time and are ready to take it to the next level.

WELCOME TO STAGE TWO!

Everything in this thread is in Addition to what has been covered in the 20psi/ Stage 1 mod thread. Although, I will try and emphasize those things that I believe are no longer an "option", but should be considered mandatory for a good build experience at this level.

I will also add that my definition of "stage two" is from 325WHP to 400WHP. (upper limit of 3 bar +40 set-up) So items such as turbo choice will focus on this area, but you can certainly run a smaller or larger turbo if you wish.

First up, let's look at the engine management;

IF your not running a Good 3 bar +40 (52lb inj) cal, your definitely going to want one now! Where we're going +20's and monkeying with the stock ECU and bleeds aren't going to cut it. I have had great success with the FWD stage 5 cals, but any Good reliable cal should do.


I took a page out of Gus's bag of tricks years ago and went full manual on the boost control and would advise the same. Most problems I have heard of with custom cals is "the cal doesn't control boost properly". I eliminated this as a potential problem early, and never looked back!

If you don't have an AFPR (adjustable fuel pressure regulator) I would suggest getting one. It's a good tool to have to dial in your cal if it's slightly rich or lean. (Unless you have the ability to tune your own cal)

.030 gap with good wires and good rotor and cap works fine for most applications up to 30psi at this level. I have had best results with Champion (R9YC) or NGK plugs (same heat range or 1 range cooler).

Same for Wideband, IF you don't have one, Get one! (Mandatory at this level!)

Quality 30psi boost gauge.

Something to monitor knock! (Also mandatory at this level!)

OTHER KEY PLAYERS;

3" mandrel bent exhaust with good quality high flow muffler or No muffler, just resonators. (looking for the least amount of back pressure here)

3" mandrel swingvalve or equivalent right off the turbo. (While not a mandatory item at this level, you Will loose some performance with anything less) ATP thread

Fully ported two piece intake or modded one piece with 52mm throttle body. No big plenum's needed Yet, but if you want to run one, more power to you. A fully ported two piece will support 400WHP without issue. Port the throat for a 52mm TB and open the upper 1/2 to about gasket size. (We did this using a foam ball that was just slightly smaller than the gasket and ported the upper half until the ball rolled right through. Just be careful no to go right through the mani in one spot, you'll be amazed how much material you'll be removing!)

Ported exhaust mani. I proved with pressure tap and near 1:1 ratio @ 37 psi and 530WHP that a properly ported exhaust manifold is NOT a major cork in the system. Keep in mind that I was successful because I have extreme flow on the AFT side of the turbo. This is where the 3" mandrel off the turbo makes all the difference in the world.

Doesn't mean a header isn't better, it should be, but everything I've read backs up what I've found to be true myself; Unless you have a perfectly designed header, you will see little difference up to 5-600WHP. After that a header becomes more mandatory!

TURBO;
This will be up to the end user, but I would suggest no smaller than a To4e 46 trim in it's native housing with .63 A/R stage 1 (stock size) turbine wheel. (this is a Perfect turbo for this combo, as you will see in the eg. I give, it actually compliments the FWD stage 5 cal as the two together were a perfect match! In or case anyways)

50 trim stage 2 is a good turbo and will give a little headroom. The stage 2 wheel will also work with the 57 trim, several B wheel configurations ect.

Anything larger than a stage 2 turbine wheel at this stage and you will be giving up spool time. (more lag) So I would only sugggest stage 3 wheels/turbos and 9cm Holsets for someone who is intending to go beyond this stage in the future and is building towards it.

Modded Talon BOV or good quality BOV. (I've used the modded Talon on the Charger with Great success! What can I say, at 140mph trap speeds and 37psi boost it's still on there!)

Cold air intake with minimum 3" mandrel pipe and quality cone filter. (front of the engine compartment is fine if there is no room to get it in front of the rad cradle)

Good FMIC. You want 2 1/2" hard pipes and a good size front mount intercooler at this level. I would say buy a quality unit, but many have gotten by with a large ebay intercooler just fine. Your looking for something with double the stock core size or larger with at least 2 1/2" inlet and outlet.

ENGINE;
You can do this with stock pistons, but I would highly suggest going Forged. (If I didn't have Forged pistons I would have redone the mtr in the Charger several times over the last 6 years, rather than running the same longblock for 6 years and counting)

T II or better rods.

Ported head with +1mm valves. (You could get away with a really well ported stock valve head, but why? Your already in there so the +1mm's are a no brainer)

#4 cooling mod! I have used our #4 cooling mod on all builds of this magnitude and had great results in HG life and zero knock tunes. Always a good idea to get that stagnant water moving in the #4 cyl! (some port the water pump housing for better flow. I haven't done this, but others have had good results)

Stock roller cam is fine at this level. Add a cam if you'd like (my choice would be the F4) or you could upgrade to an 88 turbo roller or 88 TBI for a little more flow.

Conicals and PT lifters are a nice upgrade, as many have posted positive results with them! I have not had a single issue with the stock lifters and stock style springs, but that may be due to how well balanced my set-up is. The Crane springs from FWD performance are THE best matched spring for stock replacement right to .500 lift cams and 7500rpm application that I have found!

TRANSMISSION;

Auto;
Quality rebuild with proper clearances and upgraded V-6 internals ect. Lots of info on this in the trans section.(I even know a few who have run a basically stock, gone over auto at this power level, stock converter with good results!) Just make sure you have a good sized trans cooler and watch your fluid and change accordingly!

Manual;
555/520 or 568/523

If 555/520 I would suggest getting the Molly end plate. (although not 100% needed IF you intend to make less than 350WTQ and never run slicks)

568/523's can be run "as is". Other than a quality rebuild, both of these trany's are rock solid at this power level.

Quaife posi would be nice, but not a necessity. I have never tried any of the "phantom slips" as I've heard nothing but negative feedback when it comes to using them with slicks. (maybe for a street driver?)

Clutch;
All you should need is a good T III PP with 4 puck ceramic disc. (No harm in something better, but a good 4 puck with Real T III PP will hold this kind of power) In an L-body the T3/ 4 puck combo has held close to 400WHP, heavier cars may need a better PP. ACT SRT-4 (470-700WTQ) to 523/555/568 Clutch modml

Stock turbo axles seem to do well. Run the beefy Dynasty axles IF your worried about breaking them. (just don't wheel hop your car and make sure your motor mounts aren't shot!)

Mounts; I have always used solid bobble and front (cradle) mount only. Even on the Charger, my trans and right upper mtr mounts are still stock! I've found that it's these two mounts that add a ton of vibration when switched to solid with no major gain in holding the P/T solid.

Fueling system;

S-60 or equivalent 255l (Walbro) pump.

Stock rail works well with +40's up to their limit!

I've always upgraded to 3/8" fuel line and used the 5/16" factory line as return and tossed the 1/4" line for this kind of build.

Easy power at Any build level;

Underdrive pulleys have worked well as well as removed BS assemblies for a few extra ponies!

Windage trays and crank scrappers should also be considered to free up a little HP and give better oil control. build-your-own-oil-pan-baffle


Most of all Have Fun out there and Be SAFE! (Stay tuned for stage 3 )
 
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#2 · (Edited by Moderator)
STAGE TWO REAL WORLD EG.


This is a car we built back in 03 and will give an idea of how well these mods can do if you take the time to get everything working right!

Car; full bodied Shelby Charger

Suspension; Stock (everything in excellent shape) with urathane front bushings. (rubber coil limiters in rear for 1/4 mile)

Tires; 24 x 8 x 15 M/T slicks with full weight rims, full weight rear tires and rims.

Trans; Stock 568, open diff. with T3 PP and FWD 4 puck clutch. Stock 568 shifter with Shadow cables.

FMIC; Twin stock FMIC's (mounted in front re-bar), y-piped 2 1/4" to 2 1/2" to TB.

Engine; 89 TII commonblock 0.020 over, TII stock rods with ARP rod bolts, Venolia forged pistons, oil passage massaged, Melling oil pump, in pan windage tray, 2.2 Non-tubo (cast) crank, Turbo return modded to miss crank, underdrive pully.

Head; +1mm G-head, mild porting with Crane springs (the ones Cindy sells) and stock 88 turbo roller cam degreed to 116 centerline. #4 cooling mod, Head studs with MP gasket TQ'd to 85lbs and heat cycled two to three times. (I also use copper spray now, but none at this time)

Fully ported 2 piece intake with 52mm TB, stock fuel rail with +40 inj's, AFPR.

FWD performance stage 5 3 bar cal with 3 bar map sensor.

Champion R9YC's gapped to 0.030, Magnacore wires with shortened coil wire and stock coil.

Ported exhaust mani, 46 trim To4e hybrid turbo with .63 A/R stage 1 turbine, My 3" mandrel Swingvalve with full 3" mandrel exhaust right to rear bumper through two resonators.

Simple grainger running the whole set-up.

4" K&N cone filter with 4" mandrel CAI pipe to mouth of turbo, then 4" to 3" adapter mounted to turbo. Modded Talon BOV.

PCV routed through 1 way valve to exhaust. (I later found that over 400WHP and 33psi boost, an open to air catch can works 100% better!)

S60 fuel pump with 3/8 fuel line and 5/16 return.

Solid rear bobble strut with solid front mount. (both side mounts, right mtr and left trans, were stock)

Mtr moved to right side for full size Daytona axels. Still retaining factory equil length set-up.

10w30 Mobil 1 full synthetic in both mtr and trans.

This set-up went 12's on street tires at 14psi boost the first year out and the following year, (everything broken in 100%) proceeded to go 11.62 @125mph on 28psi boost on 24" slicks! (50/50 mix of 94 and C10)

This was with No launch control and No WOT shifting and only a 1.85 60'! We could only run 28psi because we were out of fuel on the +40's. (base FP was 78 static so 106psi fuel pressure in the rail at 28psi! )

We were not in a position to do any cal changes back then, and I would Not recomend anyone follow that eg. always better to modify the cal for more fueling.

This same car has trapped 118mph on 20psi pump gas tune and is still running to this very day on the Same HG.

With what I know now (launch control + driving) I could go low 11's in this very car with no other change.
 
#5 ·
Original equipment was Champion RN12YC but most switch to RN9YC as they're cooler.

I believe the new plug number is Champion 415 for the RN9YC and 404 for the RN12YC

The basic Copper/Nickel are recommended over Platinum.

Thanks
Randy
 
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