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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I need help with my suspension. Heres what have. Poly bushings in front with mini van control arms, Stock 1986 Seem welded K member, Stock rear springs and shocks (car also came with the ebay special coilover kit for the rear with the 350lbs) springs not installed. Ebay 450lbs coil over springs and stock struts (installed) in the front. Daytona sway bar cut down. (All 93 Daytona IROC knuckles, proportioning valve, master cylinder 11" brakes, and rear vented disc brakes). What this has done: Daytona knuckles raised the car up in the front 1 inch from stock and moved the wheels out toward the fender wells maybe 1 inch on each side. Some of these knuckles have the ball joint pad lower than the stock setup. Its safe to say i ended up with this.Can i change the lower control arms to get these knuckles back into the correct spot.If so Which lower control arms can i use. Can i change the knuckles out from a different car and still use the 11" inch brakes.If so which knuckles can i use. Maybe dodge spirit knuckles???? What will iroc brakes do to the stopping power of the omni. I have the slh 3 on another omni and the rear likes to lock up and send the car into a spin. The iroc setup is more powerful than the slh 3 and may do the same. The stock brakes faded alot with some auto cross use so they are not that great either. This setup also really messed with my caster. I have alot of positive caster. I do not know how the axles will behave since i have never driven this car with this setup. Car was purchased this way....It also came with no engine installed but had a really cool t3 and 568 setup with a cable shifter thrown in with the deal.
 

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Una has a great blog on his website documenting his 11" daytona knuckle etc swap on a mega-squirted 2.4 NA DOHC omni.. check it out
 

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Discussion Starter #3
91 and up knuckles-the ball joint hole/pad is lower and further out than the 90 and older knuckles. Using this knuckle on an older car will move the knuckle outward aprox 1 inch. I know this for a fact as I have done it and measured it. This can cause some cars and vans 100% to over extend the inner cv joint and it will come apart.

So, there are 3 different types of control arms 90 and older, you have the stamped L body, and car up to 88, with the one hinge and the rear strut, vans have the same setup but are braced, a perfect upgrade for cars. 89-90 on some cars got the stamped dual pivot control arm. 91 and up got the cast and the ball joint is lower to offset the knuckle change.

this was quoted by turbovanman


Well I've tried the 91 knuckles on older control arms and the ball joint pad is raised on the knuckles, this brings the wheel out aprox 1 inch, the cast and double pivot stamped control arm is designed for this and puts the knuckle in the correct spot.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
i have the 91 and up lebaron gtc setup. I think hes saying that the cast control arms will fix my suspension and lower it back to stock height. Will they bolt up to my 86 omni k member or will i need the lebaron k memeber.
 

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you need to find either 89 or 90 shelby tona / Lebaron GTC knuckles/calipers. Or minivans up to 1990 used the same knuckle. This will fix everything. You can spot this knucke by it's molded in caliper bracket. If you get minivan ones you'll have to bolt in your smaller bolt pattern spindle. Easy as pie.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
i have lebaron gtc knuckles. they pushed my wheels out 1 inch on each side and raised the car up 1 inch due to the lower ball joint platform being offset lower that the stock knuckles. can i safely use wheel spacers to push the back wheels even with the front?

A fellow on here told me the 89 and 90 daytona calipers were different. Said the 90 and 91 are the same with the same lower ball joint platform. Said the 89 let his suspension stay where it was.

I want my wheels back in where they belong if i can get away with this. Ill make my swing axle longer if i have to get the back wheels even with the front. Gives the car a wider stance. I can also section a gtc k member and use cast control arms but this is drastic measures here.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
autozone shows the calipers to have the same part number. The real question here is the location of the lower ball joint platform on the 89 90 and 91 knuckles.

i already know the 91 and up knuckles will make my suspension weird.
i dont know what the 89 and 90 will do.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
do the 90 daytona spindles have an integral caliper bracket and bolt in hub for big brakes. Do the 90 daytona knuckles have the same ball joint location as the 89 or is it the same as the 91
 

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was I not clear in my post? you need either Daytona Shelby or Lebaron GTC spindles and calipers from 89 or 90 car. Or minivan ones up to 90 as I've seen them as early as 87 on the mini's. But if you get mini's you need to bolt in your hub. The calipers are different and won't swap. Been there done that.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
With the 91 and up calipers having the ball joint platform lower than the previous years. Would that make it better for using coil overs? by keeping the control arm more even or parallel with the road after the car was lowered? and 1 inch can spacers be used for the rear wheels. this would give the whole car a 1 inch wider stance maybe making it handle better. just a theory, what do you think. how would this change the suspension geometry
 

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you can either change the knuckles to the older ones or change the controll arms to the newer ones(I cant remember if you have to change the k frame w/ the newer arms and knuckles)

the newer stuff has better ball joint placement and is what many use

GLHNSLH2 prefers the older arms
 

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yeah I like the older arms because they're lighter and bend if you hit them hard enough (never done it) rather than something else bending or braking clean off. Easier to find bit sway bars for them too.

Yeah having the ball joint farther down in the newer spindles is better for lowering but you don't want to lower the car too much anyway. Other area's suffer if it's lowered too much.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
i did see a 90 mini with the old style lower control arms. I think it had big brakes with the caliper bracket molded into the knuckle. I couldnt get the wheel off to tell for sure. I took a close look at all 3 generations of control arms today. I did not see anything from 89 year. The cast control arms had knuckles with the ball joint platform lower on the knuckle. It sits about an inch lower than the cv axle. The 90 knuckles sit close to the cv axle and the pre 90 sit close to the cv axle. The reason I bring this up is, in another post someone said the 90 and the 91 both have dual pivot arms. This is correct. Both years have them, but one is cast and one is stamped. The 91 being the cast one and the 90 being the stamped one. The 91 cast ams correct the fact that the ball joint platform is lower on the 91 knuckle. A guy in another thread said the 90 control arm also corrects this. From what i saw the 90 stamped dual pivot arm does not correct this. I have someone who will sell me some 90 big brake knuckles for $50 but i cant buy them until i know for sure that these spindles will work for my car. From what i saw today i think they will but i saw no 89 knuckles today to compare to the 90 ones. So does anyone know for sure if the 90 and 89 daytona knuckles are exactly the same. i know the 89 has the stub type control arm and the 90 has the stamped dual pivot. But that doesnt mean the knuckles are not the same. As long as both 89 and 90 ball joint platforms sit in the same place and have an integral caliper bracket they will interchange. I know the 89 knuckles will work on a glh omni with stub type control arms because unaclocker has done this. But will the 90 knuckles that usallly has a dual pivot arm work with a car that usually have the stub type.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Another thing i noticed is k members are symetrical. I was told by a knowledgeable person that they were not symetrical. I did not measure but they look symetrical. Can i section a 89 90 and 91+ k member easily to make it shorter so it will bolt up to my omni. Are the 89 90 and 91+ dual pivot k members the same on daytonas. I know the control arms for these years are different, one cast and one stamped
 

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So does anyone know for sure if the 90 and 89 daytona knuckles are exactly the same. i know the 89 has the stub type control arm and the 90 has the stamped dual pivot. But that doesnt mean the knuckles are not the same. As long as both 89 and 90 ball joint platforms sit in the same place and have an integral caliper bracket they will interchange. I know the 89 knuckles will work on a glh omni with stub type control arms because unaclocker has done this. But will the 90 knuckles that usallly has a dual pivot arm work with a car that usually have the stub type.
GLHX, I just logged on here today and noticed you sent me a PM about this a while back (your PM's are full by the way).

89 and 90 are the same, part number and all. 4449 052-3 for both years.

89 and 90 also both used stamped dual pivot K-frames, 88 was the last year of the stub type k-frames on everything except the vans and L-body's.
 

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If I were you I would ditch the coilovers unless you get decent dampers, and get rid of the heavy 11 inch brakes unless you are doing track days, and either put stock stuff back on or minivan front brakes with non vented rear discs. On the shelby charger I had, the brakes never worked very well at all (with stock front calipers and mc, or minivan fronts and 24mm mc), but I still dont think running knuckles that change the geometry that much is a good idea.
 

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Also, in my exterience, poly bushings at the rear of the front comtrol arms (the ones in the subframe) are worse than rubber as far as handling goes. The make the suspension bind up and you will spin th einside front wheel easier in a corner, and they wear out too fast and have alot of play in them.
 
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