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I second this..... Time for some intricate details.....lol :brows:
The Charger......from the beginning
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THE TWIN TURBO
What your about to read has never seen the light of day on the net before. While I have hinted and even brought up certain aspects of the build, I have Never spoken in detail about this to anyone outside of my close group of friends and people who have been at my shop.
The Original twin turbo build started in the fall of 1996 and through to around 1998. This was also, right around the time I was getting introduced to Gary D. In this time, we built some of the "important pieces" including the header, quad I/C and modifications to the S/C shell that would allow this type of platform.
Interestingly enough, I've been doing a lot of organizing lately and came across several of these parts as well as long lost pics I drew as I was thinking things through. I even found the cardboard "mock up" of the quad stock I/C that I built back then! lol (can't believe that survived) I remember dropping by my bros (they had internet back then) and reading up on Gary D's K car, it was getting quite a bit of attention on the net back then. I would "check in" almost every time I was in town for the salvage auction.
See my original plan was to run two stock Garrett turbo's, into two stock (separate) I/C's and then a split header style twin intake with two stock 46mm TB's. I remember reading up on the ol K car and when Gary showed the limits of the stock I/C, I knew I had to make a change. So my first thought was to double both, keep everything the same, but run two I/C's beside each other with y-pipes. I quickly saw how "unorganized' this would become in the E/C with all of the extra piping and the inlet and outlets of the I/C's in bad locations. So I started to doodle (I would usually do this in the morning over coffee) and after several attempts, I finally arrived at the quad stock I/C. What a Beast!
Some of my early doodlings of what was going through my mind way back when............
What your about to read has never seen the light of day on the net before. While I have hinted and even brought up certain aspects of the build, I have Never spoken in detail about this to anyone outside of my close group of friends and people who have been at my shop.
The Original twin turbo build started in the fall of 1996 and through to around 1998. This was also, right around the time I was getting introduced to Gary D. In this time, we built some of the "important pieces" including the header, quad I/C and modifications to the S/C shell that would allow this type of platform.
Interestingly enough, I've been doing a lot of organizing lately and came across several of these parts as well as long lost pics I drew as I was thinking things through. I even found the cardboard "mock up" of the quad stock I/C that I built back then! lol (can't believe that survived) I remember dropping by my bros (they had internet back then) and reading up on Gary D's K car, it was getting quite a bit of attention on the net back then. I would "check in" almost every time I was in town for the salvage auction.
See my original plan was to run two stock Garrett turbo's, into two stock (separate) I/C's and then a split header style twin intake with two stock 46mm TB's. I remember reading up on the ol K car and when Gary showed the limits of the stock I/C, I knew I had to make a change. So my first thought was to double both, keep everything the same, but run two I/C's beside each other with y-pipes. I quickly saw how "unorganized' this would become in the E/C with all of the extra piping and the inlet and outlets of the I/C's in bad locations. So I started to doodle (I would usually do this in the morning over coffee) and after several attempts, I finally arrived at the quad stock I/C. What a Beast!
Some of my early doodlings of what was going through my mind way back when............
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Fortunately you don't have to wait long. 
I found some old pics of a strapping young lad and his dreams to dominate the local 4cyl world while going through a bunch of old drawers.
Couple of things to keep in mind here. The Twin turbo was born out of several needs. The need to go beyond what was readily available in a single turbo. The need to do it with as many parts that I already had and could easily replace or maintain, and finally the need to follow what my Lizard brain was telling me would work.
Remember, back in 96-97 turbocharging 4cyl's was a lot different than today. Going to a large turbo ment having a much larger turbine wheel/ A/R housing as turbo manufacturers had not "seen the light" in just how small of a turbine housing/ wheel combo they could use to make big power.
Also, the CND dollar was something like 0.64$ on the US dollar, so getting Anything brought up was literally Double the cost or More when you added shipping and incoming taxes. (forged pistons were an easy grand to bring in and that was the less expensive ones)
Now the one thing I did have, was a good relationship with a local (WPG) Chrysler dealership and they gave me a 30% discount across the board. (no one ever believed me when I told them this lol) Also, the cost to bring in S60 pieces through Chrysler was Way better than anything I could swing myself. So If I stuck to components that I could source through my own connections + the few pieces needed from US vendors and get the rest from Ma Mopar locally, it seemed the most cost effective way to go.
Add to that (you can call me crazy all you like) the absolute simplicity in my thinking and it all just made sense to me. IF the complete S60 pkg is around 300HP, then literally doubling it should net 5-600hp......no?
So this avenue of thinking gave me (what I thought at the time anyway) my Final twin turbo upgrade, which was two S60 turbo's running a true dual exhaust. The big Q was weather they would go .63 A/R or .48. But that would be determined over time. The Real plan was to start with two stock .48 A/R Garrett's and go from there, and there was even a back-up plan to that! IF the two Garrett's spooled too slow (like most said they would, naysayers Again! lol) then I would simply bolt two Mitt's turbo's on and I Knew they would GO!
So by keeping as much of the build "stock component replaceable and upgradeable" I felt we would have the most freedom to find the "sweet spot" we would be looking for AND be able to afford to do it! (I've seen way to many get overwhelmed by expense and never reach the finish line because they simply could not afford it)
Flashback! 96-97 right around the "Flood of the Century" in MB and I'm busy mocking up the header for the Twin.
Check out the Motorola BRICK Cell phone sitting on the cowl of the Charger lol! Man, that phone had Great reception in the boonies, but what a tank to carry around!
I found some old pics of a strapping young lad and his dreams to dominate the local 4cyl world while going through a bunch of old drawers.
Couple of things to keep in mind here. The Twin turbo was born out of several needs. The need to go beyond what was readily available in a single turbo. The need to do it with as many parts that I already had and could easily replace or maintain, and finally the need to follow what my Lizard brain was telling me would work.
Remember, back in 96-97 turbocharging 4cyl's was a lot different than today. Going to a large turbo ment having a much larger turbine wheel/ A/R housing as turbo manufacturers had not "seen the light" in just how small of a turbine housing/ wheel combo they could use to make big power.
Also, the CND dollar was something like 0.64$ on the US dollar, so getting Anything brought up was literally Double the cost or More when you added shipping and incoming taxes. (forged pistons were an easy grand to bring in and that was the less expensive ones)
Now the one thing I did have, was a good relationship with a local (WPG) Chrysler dealership and they gave me a 30% discount across the board. (no one ever believed me when I told them this lol) Also, the cost to bring in S60 pieces through Chrysler was Way better than anything I could swing myself. So If I stuck to components that I could source through my own connections + the few pieces needed from US vendors and get the rest from Ma Mopar locally, it seemed the most cost effective way to go.
Add to that (you can call me crazy all you like) the absolute simplicity in my thinking and it all just made sense to me. IF the complete S60 pkg is around 300HP, then literally doubling it should net 5-600hp......no?
So this avenue of thinking gave me (what I thought at the time anyway) my Final twin turbo upgrade, which was two S60 turbo's running a true dual exhaust. The big Q was weather they would go .63 A/R or .48. But that would be determined over time. The Real plan was to start with two stock .48 A/R Garrett's and go from there, and there was even a back-up plan to that! IF the two Garrett's spooled too slow (like most said they would, naysayers Again! lol) then I would simply bolt two Mitt's turbo's on and I Knew they would GO!
So by keeping as much of the build "stock component replaceable and upgradeable" I felt we would have the most freedom to find the "sweet spot" we would be looking for AND be able to afford to do it! (I've seen way to many get overwhelmed by expense and never reach the finish line because they simply could not afford it
)Flashback! 96-97 right around the "Flood of the Century" in MB and I'm busy mocking up the header for the Twin.
Check out the Motorola BRICK Cell phone sitting on the cowl of the Charger lol! Man, that phone had Great reception in the boonies, but what a tank to carry around!
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Here's one for the books. The First modded Dual pivot K-member that we made for the Twin Turbo! Remember, a Big part of the plan for this car was to use as many Stock available parts as possible, and to use (what we deemed) the Best parts throughout the years to "showcase" ALL of the Shelby inspired components into ONE BADASS PKG! :nodding:
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Awesome!
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Madness I say, Pure Wonderful Madness!
Thanks for sharing Shadow.
Thanks for sharing Shadow.
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"A strapping young lad" with hair Keep it coming!
Keep it coming!
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Twin turbo!
Thats awesome.
Love the detail you are going into with this thread bud. Cant wait to read more.
I wish i'd known you were in the Winnipeg area a couple years ago when I brought my IROC R/T back from Toronto it would have been a blast to stop by and meet you and see your car keep up he great work bud!
Thats awesome.
Love the detail you are going into with this thread bud. Cant wait to read more.
I wish i'd known you were in the Winnipeg area a couple years ago when I brought my IROC R/T back from Toronto it would have been a blast to stop by and meet you and see your car keep up he great work bud!
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Mop is more like it! lol One of the best decisions I made; Shave the head before the bald spot starts looking stupid! :thumb: No more crap in my hair when working under cars and super Low maintenance to boot! :dancing:"A strapping young lad" with hair
So the twin turbo was a plan made before we ever built anything significant as far as turbo 4 cyl's go. It was as simple as it gets. I figured (back then) on an unlimited budget, and according to what Top Drag cars were getting out of race fuel V-8's, 900hp was prob the most this platform would support, so 600hp seemed realistic for us
Now, the original plan was two stock style turbo's that would be readily upgradable to any turbo that could bolt in the stock location. (but two S60's was really the plan)
Those two turbo's would be driven via an equal length header, then equal length charge pipes would feed two stock I/C's and then equal length pipes back to the twin stock (46mm) TB's and a split intake feeding 2 cyl's each.
Notice how the Equal length side of the equation is slowly taking over the build.
This was a Big deal for me back then. The idea, that If everything is kept equal length, then the over-all stress on the engine as a whole will be distributed as evenly as possible, allowing the Most power to be made before failure. Only a theory of mine at the time, but again, this was where I was at thinking wise through all of this)
So once built and functioning, Everything would be bolt-on upgradable! Need more turbo, bolt it on. Need more TB, slap on a couple 52mm's ect ect, and for fueling, to stay with the "simple" approach we would run the S-60 SMEC with the +40's and 3 bar map, but add a second fuel rail to the back side of the intake with a pressure switch to turn it on anywhere along the boost curve to add fuel as we made more power.
So again, everything easily available to us and no "BIG TICKET" items to buy.
Unknowns for us at the time; How far would the stock trannies take us, and Could I drive a stick into the 9's? (so going auto was always a distant thought, but the thought was still there)
How far would the stock turbo roller cam go? Yes, we were going to run the stock roller as far as we could, then switch to full mechanical (N/A) cams offered by Ma Mopar and see how things went.
After all, we never bought into the whole "It's a turbo motor, so everything is completely different than N/A" argument. We felt that there was really No difference, other than going too big on anything, porting, pipe size TB size ect ect could be Masked by the turbochargers. So a More forgiving environment than an N/A build in our eyes. In other words; To build the ultimate turbo motor, start with an All-out N/A build and go from there.
I'll never forget all the arguments I would get into with people about the header. They all thought I should be using much smaller tubing to increase exhaust velocity to "spool" the two turbo's. My take on that; we're shooting for 600hp here, I need to design the header to allow the mtr to Breath 600hp, it really has nothing to do with anything after that! When the exhaust comes out of the mtr through the right sized cross sectional tubing, the rest will fall into place and work as it should. Seemed to make sense to me..........lol
I will admit though, that the first mock up header, was exactly that, a prototype mock-up. So I built it out of mild steel as it was never meant to serve any serious duty's. I would build a "jig" and replicate it in SS when the time was right. So the original twin turbo header was 1 5/8 header tubing with an ID of about 1.5".
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Is it time yet?
Dang it! I was foaming at the mouth when I saw this thread was active! I was hoping Rob had made a new post.
Rob, please come entertain us with intense TD history!
Rob, please come entertain us with intense TD history!
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