[92spiritrt]

after a long bit of trying to diagnose what is smoking, we've found that it is in fact my turbo. i'm looking to buy a new one. i want to go decently big, but not ridiculous. i want to make around 400hp at the wheels and do not want to be maxing the turbo out. i was thinking about this one:
Garrett T3/60-1: atpturbo.com
it is good to 550 crank hp. so that should be a little over 400 whp in theory.
what do you guys think. i want as much input as possible before i make the purchase.

 

[xtrempickup]

i would go with the precision SC something 60-1, i dont know the model number. you want DBB in a large model as otherwise its gonna kill you in lag

 

[92spiritrt]

they do have that one in ball bearing also. would the quick spool option on the journal bearing one make up for it?

 

[xtrempickup]

anything large is gonna be laggy just a fact of life on a smaller motor. i have a 54 trim t3/t4 with a stage 2 housing and i dont have full boost til at least a little above 4 grand. i would do DBB in the future if i had to do it again as it makes a would of difference. im pretty sure you can get 60-1s in dbb

 

[Ondonti]

probably a precision sc6152. Thats a stage 5 turbine wheel 61mm compressor turbo. Its like a cheaper gt3582.

But my friend says his sc6182 that uses a P trim t4 wheel spools better.....

If you lower your goals a bit then a 50 trim will work great without getting near maxing it out. Just remember that you wont make big power unless you get a big enough turbine setup which means you must accept a lack of low rpm boost.

If you can get it set to fit your t3 flange or can set something up to run a t4 flange, then a gt3582 turbo would be pretty amazing, especially if you get a real gt3582, not a fake one that uses oldschool turbine wheels and housings (but costs the same).

Go with the incredibly expensive ball bearing turbo if you can afford it and you want boost 300 rpm sooner.

 

[bansheenut420]

Precision or holset. Gotta love how cheap you can pick up a holset that will move stupidly large amounts of air. :thumb:

 

[mopar2ya]

I can hook you up with a Borg Warner S362, you can have it with extended tip for 1150.00 or non extended tip for 900.00, turbine housings are a .55 or .70. Borg Warner has been gaining in popularity in the Sport Compact market, ,and there is a lot of data showing they are consistently beating the Garrett GT stuff.

 

[rx2mazda]

You left out the answer to the most important question........."How much you willing to spend?"

Without knowing this everyone will just throw out pricey turbos that they wish they would have got or heard someone say they liked. I was also just recently looking for a turbo and came to a conclusion------most people don't know enough to help. THAT'S NOT A DIG AT ANYONE, JUST MY OPINION!!!!!!! I've found that few people actually have personal experience with different turbos, especially TD people, and when it comes to DBB turbos-forget it! They cost more than most spent on our cars! The reason few people have R+D experience - cost of turbos! I think most people buy a turbo and stick with it, for the most part. Heck, few can even read a compressor map or know what a a/r really is. Look at how many threads there are from people who bought a S60/hybrid without knowing what they were getting and are pissed("S60- crazy lag please help"). Then on top of that, add the folks who's cars aren't running right to begin with i.e., bad cam timing, wrong spark plugs/gaps for boost, low compression, etc.etc.

That being said, decide how much you want to spend and be careful who's advice you take. Anything other than stock you have to add money for WG(you want internal or ex), DP, actuator, inlet intake mods..........so the price of a turbo swap can climb fast. Talk/listen to those who have experience with different turbos and combinations(Larry,Wallace,Pat to name a few)and go from there. Why have you chosen 400whp? Are you looking to put that number down for bragging rights/pleasure or are you looking to run a certain 1/4 time that 400whp will net?

Personally, I went with a T3/4 hybrid 50 trim in 60 housing with a .63a/r stage III turbine and a external WG, I got it used at a good price and I'm having it rebuilt first. Good luck and keep us posted, i'm glad you found out what the problem was!

 

[tryingbe]

You left out the answer to the most important question........."How much you willing to spend?"

Without knowing this everyone will just throw out pricey turbos that they wish they would have got or heard someone say they liked. I was also just recently looking for a turbo and came to a conclusion------most people don't know enough to help. THAT'S NOT A DIG AT ANYONE, JUST MY OPINION!!!!!!! I've found that few people actually have personal experience with different turbos, especially TD people, and when it comes to DBB turbos-forget it! They cost more than most spent on our cars! The reason few people have R+D experience - cost of turbos! I think most people buy a turbo and stick with it, for the most part. Heck, few can even read a compressor map or know what a a/r really is. Look at how many threads there are from people who bought a S60/hybrid without knowing what they were getting and are pissed("S60- crazy lag please help"). Then on top of that, add the folks who's cars aren't running right to begin with i.e., bad cam timing, wrong spark plugs/gaps for boost, low compression, etc.etc.

Couldn't put it better. :thumb:

 

[bansheenut420]

You left out the answer to the most important question........."How much you willing to spend?"

Without knowing this everyone will just throw out pricey turbos that they wish they would have got or heard someone say they liked. I was also just recently looking for a turbo and came to a conclusion------most people don't know enough to help. THAT'S NOT A DIG AT ANYONE, JUST MY OPINION!!!!!!! I've found that few people actually have personal experience with different turbos, especially TD people, and when it comes to DBB turbos-forget it! They cost more than most spent on our cars! The reason few people have R+D experience - cost of turbos! I think most people buy a turbo and stick with it, for the most part. Heck, few can even read a compressor map or know what a a/r really is. Look at how many threads there are from people who bought a S60/hybrid without knowing what they were getting and are pissed("S60- crazy lag please help"). Then on top of that, add the folks who's cars aren't running right to begin with i.e., bad cam timing, wrong spark plugs/gaps for boost, low compression, etc.etc.

That being said, decide how much you want to spend and be careful who's advice you take. Anything other than stock you have to add money for WG(you want internal or ex), DP, actuator, inlet intake mods..........so the price of a turbo swap can climb fast. Talk/listen to those who have experience with different turbos and combinations(Larry,Wallace,Pat to name a few)and go from there. Why have you chosen 400whp? Are you looking to put that number down for bragging rights/pleasure or are you looking to run a certain 1/4 time that 400whp will net?

Personally, I went with a T3/4 hybrid 50 trim in 60 housing with a .63a/r stage III turbine and a external WG, I got it used at a good price and I'm having it rebuilt first. Good luck and keep us posted, i'm glad you found out what the problem was!

I didnt. I threw out a nice cheap holset. hx35 should make 400hp. And you can get into on stupid cheap if you watch. Like under 500 bucks cheap. Some of us do have experience. The GT series stuff sucks. You pay way to much for a turbo that spools 200 rpm sooner. And then the cartridge isnt rebuild able. Borg Warner is building some better turbos, but they are kinda pricey. Thats why suggested the hoslet, is because you can find them on ebay for like 150 bucks, have it rebuilt, and be WAY ahead. Plus, hx35 will put him right near his goals.

For example....
HX35 63 lb/min
HX40 74 lb/min
H1E 72 lb/min

Some Garrett GT40 ratings for comparison:
GT4082R 50T 58 lb/min
GT4088R 52T 68 lb/min
GT4088R 54T 72 lb/min

The way I look at it is, if he was looking for input on a turbo in certain price range, he would have said. Not all TDers are cheap.

 

[Ondonti]

I can hook you up with a Borg Warner S362, you can have it with extended tip for 1150.00 or non extended tip for 900.00, turbine housings are a .55 or .70. Borg Warner has been gaining in popularity in the Sport Compact market, ,and there is a lot of data showing they are consistently beating the Garrett GT stuff.

The only reason I see them beating GT stuff is because Sport compact racing changed their turbo size limitations so the BW turbos fit better into the new rules.

Why run a 71mm GT when you can run the 72mm BW since they increased the rules to allow for the BW. The next size GT is an illegal 74mm so you pretty much MUST go with the BW if you want to be competitive.

 

[92spiritrt]

i'm definately not cheap. cost isn't a big deal as long as its worth it. i don't want to buy anything used either. that is the situation that i am in right now. the used turbo took a crap on me. the car is currently set up for an internal wg have the bracket and actuator fwd sells(had the bracket modded to fit the t3/t4 that is in the car right now). i have the atp 3" vband swingvalve. the turbo that i pointed out would just be a direct bolt on to my current setup. which was a big thing that i was looking at cause i'm lazy and don't feel like making another downpipe. i should have said all that the beginning.

there is a ball bearing version of the 60 trim posted, but it is $400 more, which i just can't see being that much more worth it than just the regular journal bearing turbo. i'm aware that there will be lag no matter what i go with, i just want something streetable and not something that is either making full boost or nothing. i like how the 50 trim comes in that is on the car now, but i know that isn't enough turbo to hit my goal without becoming inefficient.

i've been doing alot of reading of old posts on the board lately, mainly larry's old stuff. that was a huge influence, i don't want anything that big. his seemed to come on like a light.

Why have you chosen 400whp? Are you looking to put that number down for bragging rights/pleasure or are you looking to run a certain 1/4 time that 400whp will net?

i figured with where the car is/should be power wise now, i'd just like to say it hit 400whp. 1/4mile wise, whatever it runs it runs.

wallace-here is my current setup right now. would either of those turbos bolt right up to my current setup?

thanks for the responses. i'm definately weighing my options. the more input the better.

 

[tryingbe]

Unless there are wheel damage, you can just rebuild the one you have.

 

[92spiritrt]

i want to go a bit bigger anyway, so now is the perfect time. i guess basically i've been looking for an excuse to get a bigger turbo

 

[rx2mazda]

"THAT'S NOT A DIG AT ANYONE, JUST MY OPINION!!!!!!!"

I also chose the words "most" and "few" not "nobody" or "everybody"
I realize that SOME TDer's do/will spend the money needed to make their cars right...me included. I also know many people know what they are talikng about, I listed "a few". Banshee(are you Tyler?), I know from your list of mods that you are also one of these people that spare no exspense. I think the holset is a bargain as well, the bang for the buck can't be beat!!!

As far as the money goes........I never assume. If money was not an important factor in my build, I would go for the DBB turbo. So what it only spools a couple of hundred rpms sooner and can't be rebuilt---that couple hunderd rpm's might be the deciding factor in winning or losing a race, and i'll just buy another when it goes bad. Unfortunately, my pockets have limits(at least for now), and i'm pushing them.

Back to topic, sorry:thumb:
Your ahead of the curve since you already have the supporting mods for a bigger turbo. If I were you, I would also try to get a turbo with a 5-bolt ford flange that your ATP WG and DP would hook up to. That would be just an easy swap, i wish I could do the same:bang head. Good luck, let us know what you get!

 

[Ondonti]

Feel free to use names rather then be vague.
Feel free to post specific critiques of suggested turbos.

Otherwise it really doesnt help. I dont see anyone posting who hasnt taken the expensive turbo leap themselves.
-----
Rob, you can always go with a creative boost control system. When you start making that much power, you are not going to hook up. No matter if you are using a 50 trim to make 40whp or a sc6152 (Larry's turbo) or a gt3582(r). Large turbos can actually make a car more drivable as long as you are not driving around with the boost really high. At that point, its obvious the car will be a monster but its your fault for having the boost too high for the street. Just because a small turbo can hook up with 20psi and a larger one cant hook up after 12-15psi, doesnt mean the small turbo drives better or is faster on the street.

And the differences of 300 rpms spool time usually only matters in some sort of ridiculous street racing. If you are racing at the track, you learn your shift points and you learn how to drive to keep in your powerband. Needing to have extra room in case someone tries to race you when you are in the wrong gear....should indicate that maybe you should not participate in that random streetrace. In contrast, if you want to use a ball bearing turbo to make it easier to stay in your powerband at the track, then that is a great idea.

I know my car seems to hurt on the 2-3 shift at the track. A little ball bearing magic would help since I cant increase the rev limiter on my car.

 

[bansheenut420]

"THAT'S NOT A DIG AT ANYONE, JUST MY OPINION!!!!!!!"

I also chose the words "most" and "few" not "nobody" or "everybody"
I realize that SOME TDer's do/will spend the money needed to make their cars right...me included. I also know many people know what they are talikng about, I listed "a few". Banshee(are you Tyler?), I know from your list of mods that you are also one of these people that spare no exspense. I think the holset is a bargain as well, the bang for the buck can't be beat!!!

As far as the money goes........I never assume. If money was not an important factor in my build, I would go for the DBB turbo. So what it only spools a couple of hundred rpms sooner and can't be rebuilt---that couple hunderd rpm's might be the deciding factor in winning or losing a race, and i'll just buy another when it goes bad. Unfortunately, my pockets have limits(at least for now), and i'm pushing them.

Back to topic, sorry:thumb:
Your ahead of the curve since you already have the supporting mods for a bigger turbo. If I were you, I would also try to get a turbo with a 5-bolt ford flange that your ATP WG and DP would hook up to. That would be just an easy swap, i wish I could do the same:bang head. Good luck, let us know what you get!

lol I'm Cory. Tyler has the red iroc. I didnt look at that as a dig on anyone. Just a good discusion on turbos. :thumb:

 

[mopar2ya]

Compare the Extended Tip Borg Warner vs the Garrett GT stuff. Better spool, more power and a broader power band... Just something to consider when turbo shopping.

 

[Ondonti]

Compare the Extended Tip Borg Warner vs the Garrett GT stuff. Better spool, more power and a broader power band... Just something to consider when turbo shopping.

Find me a pair that are actually comparable. Not where there is an obvious size difference.

Extended tip just means large compressor exducer, which doesnt really matter unless the turbo map doesn't fit your engine very well, or you are trying to cheat turbo size limitations.
Another reason why the Sport compacts run them. They must have paid NHRA to change the size limitations and they are designed to get around the size limitations anyways. So a 72mm turbo with a 72mm limit behaves like a 73mm while the garretts are only 71mm because the old rules were 71mm. etc etc etc.

At least you are not like Chris, bragging about clipped turbos and pretending that Garret or Borg Warner think clipping is a good idea...pretending that the new turbine wheel designs are "clipped" when they are just simply totally new designs.
But you sell turbos so I will always be here to point out the rest of the truth just like I do to Chris.
Borg Warner is the ONLY turbo to use in Sport Compact racing, but if you dont participate in turbo size limited racing, it doesnt really matter as long as you dont choose turbonetics

 

[mopar2ya]

Well seeing as NHRA doesnt have a Sport Compact program anymore, the follow the money thing doesnt really pan out. Additionally the rules have and always only specified inlet and inducer size with thte NOPI rules which are copied from NHRA which now sanctions NOPI. Heres the rule..

All other FWD and AWD engine limited to a maximum 74mm
(2.913 inches) turbo, where the maximum compressor wheel
inducer diameter may not exceed 74.5mm (2.933 inches)
measured at the point where the leading edge of the
compressor wheel meets the housing; the compressor housing
inducer diameter may not exceed 75.75 (2.982 inches)
measured at the point where the leading edge of the
compressor wheel meets the housing. Compressor wheel
inducer contours of wheel may not be stepped, notched, or
clipped; e.g., the contours must be continuous features from the
inducer to the wheel exducer.

Trying to cheat? How about making a more efficient compressor wheel by researching how air reacts with different wheels? To say its cheating is like saying the DBB is cheating over journal berings..

I run pretty much everything I sell, I wouldnt purpously trash rep for a few $$. I run a Borg Warner on my drag car, well I will when its done.

Anyway, At least you keep folks on their toes and thinking, thats the type of customer I like.