Hey everyone im rebuilding my 88 daytona shelby z swirl head along with the rest of the engine too. I am looking to get around 300 hp or more out of this beast and i know that the bottom half can handle the power. I am wanting to install new valves and camshaft to go with this and promote better air flow. Are the +1 mm valves any good or what would be the best setup for getting bigger valves. I am also looking at doing the fwdperformance stage 3 cam package with high rpm lifters and roller followers and all that good stuff. Anyone have any reviews on this setup or that cam package?
What sized valves?
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well unless you have a valve and seat grinding machine - then the valves will have to be installed by a machine shop that does...
the only time you can really do this at home is if you havent replaced any valves or seats - then you can do a quick "valve lap" to freshen up the valve seat surfaces
the sealing faces of the valves need to be ground to a profile which matches the faces on the valve seats
my machine shop installed the OS valves for no additional charge - it was included in the $85 "performance valve job" I bought ; i.e. they already have to set up the machines to cut the valves so they dont care if they are cutting used valves or cutting new valves
had they needed to install OS seats too then it wouldve been an additional 5$ each to R&R the seats + the cost of the seats ; guides are 5$ each to R&R too
I have a "inexpensive" shop here - which is GREAT !
the only time you can really do this at home is if you havent replaced any valves or seats - then you can do a quick "valve lap" to freshen up the valve seat surfaces
the sealing faces of the valves need to be ground to a profile which matches the faces on the valve seats
my machine shop installed the OS valves for no additional charge - it was included in the $85 "performance valve job" I bought ; i.e. they already have to set up the machines to cut the valves so they dont care if they are cutting used valves or cutting new valves
had they needed to install OS seats too then it wouldve been an additional 5$ each to R&R the seats + the cost of the seats ; guides are 5$ each to R&R too
I have a "inexpensive" shop here - which is GREAT !
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116 Posts
the F2 is a nicer cam by the numbers. Also the valve size is not needed for 300 WHP. You can max out what your intake flows with mild porting to a 782. The head flows 137 and the 1 piece on there flows 144 without a TB, why run an expensive big valve head? So port the exhaust manifold and port a stock or +1 valve head. Spend on the valve train and the exhaust instead.
^+1 true
systems approach
if youre gonna run a stock 1-piece then dont bother with OS valves
if you want 300 HP then plan to massage virtually every "stock" part ...
ported exh mani
ported intake mani (save up for a 2-piece?)
port work on head
etc
you may wish to add a .63 turb housing and/or a 3" SV ; at LEAST you need a 2.5" SV
systems approach
if youre gonna run a stock 1-piece then dont bother with OS valves
if you want 300 HP then plan to massage virtually every "stock" part ...
ported exh mani
ported intake mani (save up for a 2-piece?)
port work on head
etc
you may wish to add a .63 turb housing and/or a 3" SV ; at LEAST you need a 2.5" SV
well the setup that im using is the s60 turbo, 3 inch exhaust from the turbo back with no cat only a test pipe and ending with an apexi n1 turbo muffler. I will probably get the exhaust manny ported as well as the intake manny. So what your saying is that the oversized valves are not needed? I was under the impression that when you get the bigger cam with high rpm lifters when you get up into the higher rpm range you needed the OS valves to make power in that band
the point was that the OS valves werent needed UNLESS you have the rest of the engine work.. i.e. the ported manis, bigger turbo etc
so based on what you have written, then I think it would be good to inve$t in your head
AT MINIMUM
a good 5 angle (or radius) valve job, the SS 36.8mm exh valves, and an hour or so of mild port cleanup 'gasket match' to mate with your ported exh and intake manis
if you have the $$ - OS intake valves too
then all you should need is a good IC and of course the calibration and fuel to support it - and 300 Hp shouldnt be too tough
my swirl head has:
fresh 5-angle valve job and decking
36.8mm FWDperf SS exh valves
PT lifter/3.3 conicals/GM retainers
91 TBI roller cam
moparzrule ported (then coated) exh mani
ported intake 1-piece mani ports, head ports
minor deshrouding 'smooth sharp corners' in the CC & Singh grooves
ported inlet and outlet TII comp housing
ported & coated 0.48 turb housing
ported & coated 2.5" SV
2.5" DP & 3" FWD mandrel system, no cat or muff
SRT/4 FMIC
PS some builders here are starting with the new 200$ head castings.. if you're gonna put time and $$ into a head then maybe its best to start with a nice new one since decent used heads (uncracked) are getting HARD to find
hom much $ you got ?
so based on what you have written, then I think it would be good to inve$t in your head
AT MINIMUM
a good 5 angle (or radius) valve job, the SS 36.8mm exh valves, and an hour or so of mild port cleanup 'gasket match' to mate with your ported exh and intake manis
if you have the $$ - OS intake valves too
then all you should need is a good IC and of course the calibration and fuel to support it - and 300 Hp shouldnt be too tough
my swirl head has:
fresh 5-angle valve job and decking
36.8mm FWDperf SS exh valves
PT lifter/3.3 conicals/GM retainers
91 TBI roller cam
moparzrule ported (then coated) exh mani
ported intake 1-piece mani ports, head ports
minor deshrouding 'smooth sharp corners' in the CC & Singh grooves
ported inlet and outlet TII comp housing
ported & coated 0.48 turb housing
ported & coated 2.5" SV
2.5" DP & 3" FWD mandrel system, no cat or muff
SRT/4 FMIC
PS some builders here are starting with the new 200$ head castings.. if you're gonna put time and $$ into a head then maybe its best to start with a nice new one since decent used heads (uncracked) are getting HARD to find
hom much $ you got ?
well where can i get that 200 dollar head casting that you speak of. i do have some scarring on the camshaft journals of the old head so if i was to start with a new cast it would prolly be less work in the long run. If i can find out where do get this head then that is the route that i will take
the scarring doesnt look too bad its just on the caps that hold the cam in place and the other side of the cap where it rests on, i will take pictures this afteroon and post them so that you guys will have abetter clue of what i am talking about
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10,119 Posts
If you do spend the money on a ported head the smart thing to do is new casting with a 782. 909 raceparts on ebay is the cheapest.
Then get a full ported and polished work done by like lonewolf, Tyler or FWD. Spend less on the head and run the smaller valves. Then use the money left over from that to get the manifolds ported.
I would keep the cam you have or run a 88 only TBI cam, then the 3.3 conicals work or even the cheap MP springs. The PT lifters also work with a stock cam with no problems.
If you decide to go farther, a brand new cam, not a regrind and a performance cam. Then step up to the best conical, the Comp 995.
A custom cam helps, but they are spendy. The idea of a spendy custom cam on an old regrind core doesn't make sense anymore than a spendy port job and valves on an ol wasted head either. We are getting to the point where we need to step and spend a few hundred dollars more and by new, because the stuff is just aged now.
The only other thing to note with current TDs is the intake. The stock intakes don't have much of a plenum and don't flow well. Doing a custom plenum intake is a great idea to get more RPM and top end HP out of the turbo engines. Even before a header or a big valve head.....
Then get a full ported and polished work done by like lonewolf, Tyler or FWD. Spend less on the head and run the smaller valves. Then use the money left over from that to get the manifolds ported.
I would keep the cam you have or run a 88 only TBI cam, then the 3.3 conicals work or even the cheap MP springs. The PT lifters also work with a stock cam with no problems.
If you decide to go farther, a brand new cam, not a regrind and a performance cam. Then step up to the best conical, the Comp 995.
A custom cam helps, but they are spendy. The idea of a spendy custom cam on an old regrind core doesn't make sense anymore than a spendy port job and valves on an ol wasted head either. We are getting to the point where we need to step and spend a few hundred dollars more and by new, because the stuff is just aged now.
The only other thing to note with current TDs is the intake. The stock intakes don't have much of a plenum and don't flow well. Doing a custom plenum intake is a great idea to get more RPM and top end HP out of the turbo engines. Even before a header or a big valve head.....
the money is not a huge deal for me, i am wanting to get the cam for higher rpm power since im getting the high rpm lifters and will be upping my redline on the car. I am definitely upgrading the size of the exhaust valves and am not sure quite yet if i will upgrade the intake valves. About home much does it cost to port the head? how about the exhaust manifold and intake manifold? is it possible to port the manny's myself or do they need to be done by a professional?
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10,119 Posts
FWD has the exhaust, intake and head ported. A ported 1 piece doesn't flow that well. By a stock 2 piece and open the neck to fit a 52mm TB. FWD has +1 or stock valve heads that are ported. Your looking for the 17% more intake flow, commen with stock to +1 valve heads. The exhaust manifold is easy and I normally port mine and coat them, you can buy them that way. Then a new F4 cam with PT lifters and Comp 26995 springs and chevy LS1 retainers. The cam can be had with a stock base circle and then you can use the MP type high RPM lifters or the PTs or stock.
you need the F4
A 4" plenum on a 2 piece or a cut and welded 1 piece
porting, a good ported exhaust manifold and 3" exhaust, and ported head
the intercooler needs to flow more and so does the turbo.
Engines choked on the intake side don't rev, and it is costly if you buy it and can't make the intake yourself.
alright so port the head to all hell, pick me up a two piece intake, and port the exhaust manny to hell, im getting a front mount and will be running new pipes. Bov to prevent compressor surge. Now where can i pick myself up a 2 piece.
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