Turbo Dodge Forums banner
1 - 20 of 31 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I know this is a noob question, but I can't find the voltage regulator in my 1985 Dodge 600 ES Turbo. I have looked in the Chilton and Haynes repair manuals, and can't find any diagrams that show the location of the part. Can anybody help??
 

· Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
I had the same question once in my 1987 Shelby charger with the turbo I engine and the guy who fixed it for me said that the voltage regulator was actully part of the altenator. So I replaced it and bam all better. Hope this helps.

Bryan GLHS#902
 

· Administrator
Joined
·
26,453 Posts
I am not familar with the vehicle but Alldata is showing with a Bosch or Mitsubishi alternator the voltage regulator is internal to the alternator and with a Chrysler alternator it can be external or part of the PM.
 

· Helping when I can
Joined
·
1,327 Posts
^ yup the Chrysler alt has 4 wires going to it (power, field, field, ground) and the VR is integrated in the power module in turbo/FI cars.

For those who are curious, carb'd cars will have an old-fashioned Chrysler VR on the firewall.

Those external VRs can be spliced into the harness to the power module on FI/MPI cars if a replacement PM cant be found - but will never be perfect.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
62 Posts
I am having a similar issue. I have a 1985 Shelby Charger
and I think the previous owner spliced a VR into the
harness. There was one on the passenger fender. I knew
something didn't look right, and that explains it. I think
mine just went bad, was getting about 17.5 volts when
running, 12.5 when turned off.

I just looked at replacements at Schucks and they are
about $24.99 & $53.99 for Niehoff and Borg Warner
respectively. The Niehoff has a one year warranty and
the BWD has a three year.

I have the part numbers in my car, I'll post them when I
get back to the computer.

BWD part # R296 $53.99 3yr war.
Niehoff # AL154CS $24.99 1yr war.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
3,679 Posts
NAJ is correct. There were some cars that do have an internally regulated alternators there was a thread here a while ago and the guy posted a picture of it. The thread was driving me crazy because I have never seen an internally regulated moper. Most of us think all mopars are externally regulated with either a fender mounted regulator (carbed) or a regulator in the computer (fuel injection) but there are some out there from the mid 80's that are internally regulated. Parts books do list one if you look them up try 85.

To the original poster you need to figure out what alternator you have. The old square back chrysler unit and the denso units are externally regulated. The ones NAJ listed are internally regulated. A picture of the unit might help.

To the poster that said some have 2 regulators. I have never seen such a beast and can't see one working or the need to put 2 regulators on a charging system.

To the poster that said a previous owners cut the wiring and added the external regulator. It has been done quite a bit when the regulator in the computer fails. It can be cheaper to fix then replacing the computer. But some do report that after doing this a code sometimes sets. Its not a big deal. It sets because the computer checks what it is charging the battery at and it doesn't know it isn't doing it anymore and the external regulator just charges the battery outside of the computers specs. If you need help to diagnoise it post back. If you unplug that regulator the alternator should stop charging and the voltage should drop back to 12.5 and slowly drop as the engine runs. If it stays high still they probably piggy backed the new regulator on top of the old one. Bad way to do it.
Tim
 

· Registered
Joined
·
62 Posts
I will look into it a little more next week. I did a lot to it this
week and went kinda over my "car allowance" budget. I am
going to get the replacement VR from Schucks and see if that
does the trick.

I have read and been told to look at all the ground
wires/straps to make sure the ground is good on everything.
Is there a checklist of grounds to go from? I am very new to
this car and I don't know where to look for them all.

Also, it has some sort of electrical pulsing going on too.
The gauge needles pulsing and the static noise resonating
too. Hopefully that will be fixed when I swap in the new
voltage regulator and clean up the wiring.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
3,679 Posts
I will look into it a little more next week. I did a lot to it this
week and went kinda over my "car allowance" budget. I am
going to get the replacement VR from Schucks and see if that
does the trick.

I have read and been told to look at all the ground
wires/straps to make sure the ground is good on everything.
Is there a checklist of grounds to go from? I am very new to
this car and I don't know where to look for them all.

Also, it has some sort of electrical pulsing going on too.
The gauge needles pulsing and the static noise resonating
too. Hopefully that will be fixed when I swap in the new
voltage regulator and clean up the wiring.
Before buying one unplug it and see if the pulsing stops. And when you do replace it make sure it is grounded good the external regulator do last very long (5 seconds) with no ground and are short lived with a poor ground. A poor ground will also raise voltage since the 2 wires hooked to it one is 12v+ and the regulator uses that wire and the ground it gets from the case to read voltage. the other wire is the ground side of the field circuit to the alternator. The regulator varies a ground on that wire more ground higher charge less ground lower charge get it?

Start at the battery neg cable make sure it is grounded to the block good and the connection is clean. also it there are any other wires coming off that cable that they are clean and tight. There should also be under the hood a strap going from the engine to the body. make sure it is there and in good condition. It goes missing quite often or breaks.

I see your in Alaska are there any junk yards near by? Just about any mopar from 1970 to the mid 80's would use the same regulator and a bag full of them is cheap. Or someone down here could send you a bag full for less then they want for one. 50 bucks sounds way too high for one.
Did a little search on advance autos site they have the 40 dollar regulator but they also show a 17.99 one and it shows it fits just about anything that used the external regulator. If you have a little time order one online Advance Auto Parts - quality auto parts and accessories I would send a link to the item but it never works on their site I used 1984 dodge aries with a 2.2 carb engine it came back with a niefhoff unit part number AL154CS
Tim
 

· Registered
Joined
·
55 Posts
Hi all--
I have an '87 Dodge Aries with the same issue, just bought it. The alternator was just replaced by the previous owner but still no charging. I'm thinking the regulator is bad, but is it located in the computer next to the battery, or the computer near the passenger footwell? Is there any way to open the computer and replace the regulator? (Also, the alternator does not have an internal regulator.)

The computer next to the battery also appears to be new. Is there something else I'm missing?

Thanks--
Dave
 

· Administrator
Joined
·
26,453 Posts
The voltage regulator is located in the power module(underhood).
If the regulator is the cause your options are to replace the PM or install an external regulator.
Do not jump the gun, there is wiring between the PM, LM(logic module) and alternator.
Use proper diagnostics and determine where the problem lies before throwing parts at the problem.
Are any charging system fault codes set?
 

· Registered
Joined
·
55 Posts
Thanks for the reply, NAJ. Yes, a code is set, a "16".
I know this topic has been beat to death, but I'm afraid I'm still missing something. My '87 2.2L Aries is charging at 18+ volts.
Here is what I know after the testing I've done so far:

--Supposedly good alternator, tested at Advance auto
--I have the required battery voltage from ignition switch feed for the F1 terminal on the alternator (lower terminal).
--I have the same voltage on the F2 terminal (upper) of the alternator when key is "on". In other words, continuity between F1 and F2.
--Resistance between the F1 and F2 terminals is 8-10 Ohms.
--The alternator ground is good.
--The Dark-Green and Orange Voltage Regulation Signal wire on 12-Way Connector between the Power Module and Logic Module has no shorts.
--I clipped the DG-O voltage signal wire mentioned above and stripped both ends. With the key "on," I had 1.88 Volts on the Power Module side of the clipped wire. I had no volts on the Logic Module side of the clipped wire. (I obviously fixed the wire after I did this.) This seemed strange to me because the car wasn't running. I would have figured there would be no volts at all.
--The two Light Blue and Red grounds on the Logic Module are good.
--The Logic Module battery voltage input (red and white wire) is battery voltage when key is "on".
--I ran new test wires from both of the field connections on the alternator to bypass the original wiring in case of shorts. There was no change--charging voltage still way too high.


All of this tells me either my Power Module or Logic Module is bad or both. The only other thing that bothers me is the continuity between the two Field connectors on the alternator. I keep having a hunch they're not supposed to read the same voltage or show any resistance at all.

Anyway, it anyone can shed any light on this, I would appreciate it. Tomorrow I'm going to pick up a used Logic Module from a junk yard close to me. I'll use it in continued testing I guess.

Thanks!
Dave
 

· Administrator
Joined
·
26,453 Posts
Know whats funny, I printed out all of the charging diagnostics last week and they are still in my tool box, keep forgetting to bring them home. :bang head
I forwarded your problem to our resident charging system specialist (charger R/T) so if anyone can help he can. Just have to wait for a reply.
 

· Administrator
Joined
·
26,453 Posts
charger R/T is having some health problems, GET WELL SOON!!!!!
If I get the chance I will try to get some diagnostics at work.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
648 Posts
Well, if the Voltage regulator is internally in the LM, then what the heck is that lil' black box inline with the Alternator wiring?

Now, NAJ or Charger R/T or anyone in earshot... The diagram talks about a jumper wire between 22 and 2. Then it talks about the Diagnostic read out? Can I just put a DVM between 2 and 22 and expect to read 12 volts...or 14 if the motor is running? Or the motor can't run because the LM is unplugged?..

Holy Shit, I'm glad I'm a plumber. If I was a mechanic you would find me in a corner huffing gasket remover...

I thought this was going to be an easy fix... Well, I did order a Stage 4 LM this week... Maybe my problems will be solved after all.
 

· Administrator
Joined
·
26,453 Posts
The voltage regulator is actually in the PM. The PM does all the heavy work and the LM does the thinking and decision making.
They are bypassing the internals of the LM to test the voltage sense wiring and to be sure it is seen on the scanner, I cannot remember running this test but if I did it was over 20 years ago. I will try to find you more info this evening.
 
1 - 20 of 31 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top