Turbo Dodge Forums banner
1 - 20 of 24 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
345 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I got a S3 cal from cindy with air charge sensor, my A/F meter is dawes device. Simon installed it for me and hes good on these stuff so installation is fine. The gauge blinks on idle on red color, but on WOT i get lean, even not in WOT like 5-6 psi i still get red color steady. Why is that? So it means im melting stuff at 5 psi??? I always put premium gas with Mobil1 Synthetic. I dont know whats the issue and Simon couldnt figure it out yet. Please help.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
345 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Sorry for the noob ques, but im not good with mechanical and electric stuff, i dont even know where the end of wires are attached to!!! Where should i find the NB wires. Is it on my o2 sensor? And he told me this is the best and easiest to go.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
3,846 Posts
I talked to Simon about the cal, and said I would be happy to make changes, but he had no info for us to make changes. Your best bet would be to get a wideband O2 on that thing and see what fuel is really doing! O2 volts is NOT the most accurate way to measure fuel. I also didn't ask what fuel pressure you're running and if when in boost what is your fuel pressure doing. The reason I ask, is that the most common complaint on our cals is not too lean, but too rich, and on that s3 cal and your set-up, lean should NOT be an issue. I would be very hesitant to drive the car much until you find out where you are really at.
later,
Cindy
 

· Registered
Joined
·
827 Posts
I got a S3 cal from cindy with air charge sensor, my A/F meter is dawes device. Simon installed it for me and hes good on these stuff so installation is fine. The gauge blinks on idle on red color, but on WOT i get lean, even not in WOT like 5-6 psi i still get red color steady. Why is that? So it means im melting stuff at 5 psi??? I always put premium gas with Mobil1 Synthetic. I dont know whats the issue and Simon couldnt figure it out yet. Please help.
Hi

I too have an S3 cal and i am running very very lean. the lights on my dawes go out! just to give you an idea! This is on a stock T2 running 14-15psi. I am in the process of checking everything related to fuel. I can watch the lights go from blue to green, yellow then red and no lights at all in 3rd at WOT.. pulls nice but i have to back off.

Things to check. Get a fuel pressure gauge and check your FDR. Should be 45psi at idle and 55 at "0" and 1psi of fuel for every 1psi of boost pressure. so 5psi boost should give you 60psi total fuel pressure.

Check your injectors, they might not be working properly or not properly connected to your harness or fuel rail.

Check the fuel pressure from the fuel pump in the tank, your fuel pump might be getting tired. its probably giving the volume of fuel, but not the right amount of pressure. perhaps you have a dirty fuel filter?

lastly, check your o2 sensor. these are know to go often on these cars.

what sorts of weather are you running lean in? humid weather will also cause you to run lean as the water vaper in the air displaces oxygen or something like that.

do you see the blue led at all? even if your in say 4th gear at a low rpm and go wot? Maybe your boost gauge is inaccurate or not hooked up right?

let us know!
bernie
 

· Registered
Joined
·
345 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Ok thanks for the info,
"Cindy" i'll bring the car back to him by this week, (he was very busy last week) to see whats the issue. The thing is as soon as it passes around 5psi of boost, the red light goes on. I'll check with him and give you more info on my fuel pressure.
"gti_7" I never got a blue light, except when i put in 1st gear and let go of clutch it goes red, yellow, blue and red blink then stops. Im sure my fuel pump is fine, because i just replaced it with a brand new one couple months ago. When simon was working on it he said my o2 sensor wasn't working properly, so he fixed it, injectors should be fine as well but i'll check on that. Weather is sunny with mildly cloudy, sometimes rain and sun together. Whats the best guage i should get.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
3,846 Posts
Ok thanks for the info,
"Cindy" i'll bring the car back to him by this week, (he was very busy last week) to see whats the issue. The thing is as soon as it passes around 5psi of boost, the red light goes on. I'll check with him and give you more info on my fuel pressure.
"gti_7" I never got a blue light, except when i put in 1st gear and let go of clutch it goes red, yellow, blue and red blink then stops. Im sure my fuel pump is fine, because i just replaced it with a brand new one couple months ago. When simon was working on it he said my o2 sensor wasn't working properly, so he fixed it, injectors should be fine as well but i'll check on that. Weather is sunny with mildly cloudy, sometimes rain and sun together. Whats the best guage i should get.

You should check your spark plugs. What color are they? tan, white, black?
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
10,119 Posts
the S3 should be fine under boost unless the fuel system is plugged or the vac system is bleeding it. Vac line leaks can bleed the thing and you don't know. If you have a small wastegate can and a S5 for 15 PSI the thing will only get 15 PSI anyway. But the computer may only see 7 PSI of boost with a leak. Did you atleast change the fuel filter? A new filter should be part of any new cal install.

I think running a wideband and adjustible fuel pressure regulator is more a 3 bar computer need. Something else is goofy. If you have an AF gauge, buy the cheaper LC-1 and convert it to wideband.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
345 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
"Cindy" i got the white and black color Autolite sparkplugs from you, so its brand new and i got brand new Aurora 8.5mm spark plug cables.
"The Pope" I havnt changed the filter yet, so i'll do that when i dropped my by Simon.
I now know Wideband is needed and NB wont be accurate, but i have to collect some cash first, $300+ on the spot is kinda a big step for me.
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
10,119 Posts
you can not tell how much fuel you have 2 bar or 3 bar with a narrowband gauge. Period.
keep in mind you can get a good reading from a anolog gauge just fine. You can't see the right fuel ratio with a narrow band SENSOR period, never heard of a narrow band GAUGE though. In fact when I bought my LC-1 it came with a AF gauge that works with both sensors. When you get the LC-1 the instructions say that you convert your current narrow band gauge to a wideband gauge when you simply hook up the gauge to the LC-1. It is part of there sales pitch in fact.

LC-1 Lambda Cable with 02 Sensor : Wideband Controller Cable for Dyno, ECU, Data Acquisition, or Gauge Applications

convert an existing narrow-band gauge,

so you keep the current narrow band gauge and buy the LC-1. You use a laptop for the exact AF ratio in number form. One output to the computer and the other output to your existing gauge, sweet.

Basically by buying the LC-1 and an autometer you end up with there G3 kit but cheaper :thumb:
 

· Legendary Driver
Joined
·
11,047 Posts
The guage for Narrowbands still isn't as accurate. The DB, G2, and G3 gauges are operating on a 0-5v range and tuned to run with the LC-1.

I've seen the 0-1v narrowband gauges put out a different # of lights on the same car with the same O2 sensor. So you've got to figure out what voltage lights what light by programming over and over. It's better to watch the virtual gauge on a laptop and datalog it if you want. The virtual gauge is basically the XD-16 without the led's around the outside as far as response and 3 big #'s staring you in the face.
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
10,119 Posts
The guage for Narrowbands still isn't as accurate. The DB, G2, and G3 gauges are operating on a 0-5v range and tuned to run with the LC-1.
the narrow band sensor runs from about 13.5 to 15.5 and is fairly accurate. When you are more rich or more lean the gauge and sensor spike rich or lean. This is because of the sensor. The gauge is a simple .5v and works on a even curve, they seem to run that way because of what there plugged into.

I've seen the 0-1v narrowband gauges put out a different # of lights on the same car with the same O2 sensor. So you've got to figure out what voltage lights what light by programming over and over. It's better to watch the virtual gauge on a laptop and datalog it if you want. The virtual gauge is basically the XD-16 without the led's around the outside as far as response and 3 big #'s staring you in the face.
What you have is people buying some POS from JC for $25 like old Gus did that has 9 lights and is generally a POS of a gauge in the first place. Then comes how accurate a gauge can read by how much voltage each light runs on. A daws with 4 lights has a lot larger range than a 9 light, same goes for my Autometer gauge with 18 lights. The Autometer is a quality gauge with enough lights to show the range better.

Then comes the real issue with gauges, there real actual job, a warning light. Your not going to use the gauge for fine tuning unless you spend $400 and buy the XD-16. Unless your running D cal, which very very few are or any custom computer, you do not need to be able to read the numbers. The vast majority of us will simply adjust the AF with the fuel pressure regulator and or send the cal in for an adjustment. You hook up the laptop and find the AF you want, then thats it. The gauge needs to tell you if you lose a vac line or something and there is a problem. Are you really looking at your floor boards staring at your G3 to see the exact number while racing? I dout it. The old type gauges are much better for doing the job after adjustment because they warn you with a color light. I don't have to look for the number, the color changes and I lift. What do you do with a G3? "well I wasn't watching but I think it said 12 before it melted, or was that 14 I saw" :drinking: So at that point the best is either a laptop and a old gauge or a XD-16 as the XD has a color bar like an Autometer. But still even with a flashable D cal wouldn't you want to make a run with the LC-1 data logger hooked to the laptop and compare the AF curve to your computers fuel curve when finished?

So for tuning the commen TD you need a LC-1, a cheap $100 laptop, and an old OTC. Adjust your fuel pressure lean untill you start pulling timing and back it off, or play it safe and run a hair rich without pulling timing. Then you got a color warning light and a boost gauge making sure the turbo and the vac lines are doing there jobs. Then adjust the LC-1 output to get a little mileage. I think the D cal people should consider a EGT gauge for messing with the timing.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
345 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Nicely said Pop. Simon told me the same thing that once you see red you let go of gas, actually its bright and I pointed at my window so the light will reflect even in sunny days I can see it fine. I usually don't use boost alot, sometime when I have to merge to highway or just for fun, its dd so I don't abuse it and like old saying something is better than nothing.
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top