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Discussion Starter #1
I'm looking for the factory pan for my 87 Daytona Shelby Z.
It's my understanding that the factory pan was a "deep well", part number 4387575, according to my parts manual.
I've seen a couple pictures of the pan, and they have a "hump" on the bottom of the pan that the longer oil pickup fits into.
pictured are images of the pan and pickup I have found online.
 

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FYI this pan holds approx 4 quarts of fluid. Used in 87-88. The 84 (and possibly earlier) -86 T1 pans held 5 quarts of oil. They interchange. They also used different dipsticks. Black and silver handled. Yes, people refer to this pan as a deep well, but hold 1 quart of oil less than the lower performance T1 engine pan. These pans are usually in very poor shape as you may well know because of people using the pan to jack up their front end of vehicle. The sump didn't fare to well as a result. I probably have a couple of each in spare parts. I'd have to look in my shed.
 

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Wrong pans for 1988 and older 2.2 Marty.

1986-88 2.5 Tall Deck fits 1989 and newer common blocks.

None are pre common block.

Thanks
Randy
 

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Discussion Starter #5
So this pan has less capacity than the standard T1 pan? Does the T1 pan use the longer pickup like i have shown in the second image? I have an oil pan that doesn't clear the stock oil pickup. No clue what it's off of, other than it not being the stock pan.
 

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The pickup looks like a common block 2.2 without balance shafts EG: Melling 119s

Or maybe a Dakota Melling 124s

I believe you need a Melling 118s. Todd can verify.

Non common blocks typically also attach to a main cap.

Thanks
Randy
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I can't find the original pickup that was on the engine when i got it, but it's almost identical to the Melling 119s, but with a smaller slot for oil to enter. I want a pan that is compatible with that pickup, rather than using the one that attaches to a main cap. I don't see any provisions in my engine to attach the pickup to the main caps.
The oil pan issue has been one of the longest running issues in my build and at this point I'm no longer sure what my engine had stock and what it needs to work.
 

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I think the pick up attaches to the main cap using the main cap bolt ..

IT IS the pan & pick up YOU WANT TO USE

the dish & screen are comparable to the pick up's found in a big / small block dodge V8

those TII pick up's & pans are better suited to a lawn tractor

pick up for the TII is half the diameter which
pick up for the 2.5 is equally as sad a piece ..but the pan can be used if baffled

most important is the 1/4 - 3/8's inch gap between the bottom of the pan and the pick up needed for proper function

which makes our cars and tow trucks an issue
- crossbar of many wheel lift trucks will crease the oil pan hard enough to hit the pick up inside...
make the tow driver lift your CAR A LITTLE HIGHER PLEASE!!!
 

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Right, they have one special main cap bolt.

You can see it in this vid at about 0:34, it's not my vid, I grabbed it off youtube

Thanks
Randy

 

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I can't find the original pickup that was on the engine when i got it, but it's almost identical to the Melling 119s, but with a smaller slot for oil to enter. I want a pan that is compatible with that pickup, rather than using the one that attaches to a main cap. I don't see any provisions in my engine to attach the pickup to the main caps.
The oil pan issue has been one of the longest running issues in my build and at this point I'm no longer sure what my engine had stock and what it needs to work.
Okay, oil pans for early blocks aren't rocket science. The two pans were talkin about are interchangeable. Not sure if you are building a "correct" engine restoration or what? Don't let this minor deal hold you back. Oil pickups are inexpensive too. Just bought a NIB Mopar brand 2.5 CB pickup on ebay for $12 shipped!
Here is the deal. In 85, some engines 2.2 engines used a 5 bolt oil pump. This required a specific pickup # 5203324. It looked identical to the 85 pickup, but was a different length because the oil pump was a different length. The 85 used the 5 quart pan.
In 86, the 2.2 used the same 5 quart pan. They used a 4 bolt oil pump. This required the pickup be changed to 4343198. Both the 85 and 86 used a special main cap bolt for secondary attachment with this pickup.
In 87, they used two different oil pans. The same 5 quart pan and a 4 quart (deep well) pan which the TII cars used. The deep well pan used 4387360 pickup. This did not use the secondary maincap attachment bolt. Some engines continued to use the 85-86 5 quart pan.
In 88, the 5 quart pan was dropped. The 2.2 SOHC engines all used the 4 quart pan along with the 4387360 pickup.

Looking at both the 86 (large) pickup and the 87/88 (small single bolt pickup) they appear to be the same exact length and the same diameter 5/8" tubing. So in theory, there is no reason why you couldn't use the 87/88 pickup, with the 85/86 5 quart oil pan. I've done it. It works fine. I do it for a specific reason that when building a windage tray, I can use a much smaller hole punched in the tray for the oil pickup. I don't think you can go the other way around though (using the 85/86 pickup) because the larger pickup won't fit in the smaller deep well pan. That is why Chrysler made the change in pickup designs. It was to fit their new 4 quart oil pans.
Whatever direction you go, check the clearance of the oil pickup to the bottom of the oil pan. Many pickups are very close to the bottom of the pan.

FYI, the 2.2 CB 89+ 4 quart oil (non balance shaft) pans appear to use the same 87/88 pickup. In have a 94 2.2 pickup, and it is identical to the 87/88 pickup. The 2.5 CB pickups and balance shaft pickups are a whole different animal though. The 86-88 2.5 use a different pickup yet.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Are part numbers stamped on oil pans anywhere? Are the non-turbo oil pans from pre-1987 different from the turbo pans? I have two oil pans right now that are identical and neither fit the stock oil pickup at all, hence my confusion. It was my understanding that they were both T1 pans, pre-common block. I have a melling 118s and a 119s and they aren't the same length. the 119s hits on the pan I have, while the 118s doesn't.
I'm not all that concerned about staying "factory correct" with this car, I just want the best solution. If I go with the 118s style pickup, do I need to attach it to my main cap somehow? Is the special bolt to do that available anywhere?
Here are some pictures of what I have right now.
first picture is comparing the two pickups I have, and the difference in length.
second picture is the pan I have, and third is the bottom end, in case that matters.
Thank you all for you help so far,
Isaak
 

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Yes the oil pans are stamped with a part # on them (on bottom), but between rust and all the dents, they are tough to see. What you have is the 5 quart pan. It does look pretty dented and dinged up though. Looks like someone hammered the dents out. Like I said, they're two large pickups, one for the earlier engines with the 5 bolt oil pump and one that looks just like it made for the 4 bolt oil pumps. Perhaps you have the 5 bolt pickup?
Does the large pickup one fit under the oil pan? If so, how much clearance? I'm assuming the 87/88 style deep sump pickup does not fit? If so, can you tell how much is oil pan coming up off the rail of block?
Pretty sure the factory added the secondary fastener because of the added weight from the larger pickup in the first design. I doubt you will find any NOS main bolt fasteners, but here is the part # if you want it 6500756.
I'll try to get out into shed tomorrow and pull a couple pans out of storage. Mine probably have some surface rust on outside, but pan itself should be pretty much dent free.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
This is the pan that the previous owner gave me with the car. He found it in his garage. It's clearly been dented and repaired, but it appears to be roughly hammered out to where it should be.
The large pickup does fit under the pan. I'm not sure what the exact clearance is. The smaller pickup doesn't fit, it pushes the pan up somewhere between 1 and 2 inches off the rail. I'll measure tomorrow.
If I use the large pickup, do I need the secondary fastener? I cut the bracket off of the pickup that I have - does the bracket really matter?
 

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This is the pan that the previous owner gave me with the car. He found it in his garage. It's clearly been dented and repaired, but it appears to be roughly hammered out to where it should be.
The large pickup does fit under the pan. I'm not sure what the exact clearance is. The smaller pickup doesn't fit, it pushes the pan up somewhere between 1 and 2 inches off the rail. I'll measure tomorrow.
If I use the large pickup, do I need the secondary fastener? I cut the bracket off of the pickup that I have - does the bracket really matter?
If your going to reuse the pickup, make sure you clean it exceptionally well. Debris has a tendency to lodge in screen. Bits of gasket material, silicone, carbon, dirt, and other debris is probably hidden in screen out of view. If the previous engine lost bearings or anything like that, I wouldn't risk using it. Like I said before, the pickups are inexpensive. Beat on the edges of pickup on some wood or something to make sure everything comes out of pickup screen.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Is it important to bolt the larger (melling 118s) pickup onto the main bearings, if I go that route?
I would be using a brand new pickup either way.
 

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Is it important to bolt the larger (melling 118s) pickup onto the main bearings, if I go that route?
I would be using a brand new pickup either way.
Just my opinion but the factory deemed it necessary for that bolt to be there, but I'm sure many people esp. those running main studs just went without. Loctite the single bolt in with 271 for sure.
 

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My common block warranty replacement Engine for a 1988 T-II has a threaded hole in the main bolt!!

The pickup attaches there with a small bolt.

Thanks
Randy
 
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