Bigger turbo = more lag.

Way big turbo on small engine = 1 psi at 7000 rpm.

 

Bigger turbo = more lag.

Way big turbo on small engine = 1 psi at 7000 rpm.

Seen it happen- I had a customer bring his GLHS clone to me and wanted me to install a g-head and a used turbo with just 500 miles on it. It had a TO4E 57 in a TO3 cover with a stage III wheel in a .48 housing with a ball bearing setup from TEC turbo.

I called him up and said you want me to install this? It's going to lag like hell. He said the guy that sold it to him said it spooled up great (because it was BB) I told him sounds a bit fishy to me that a guy spends $1200 for a turbo and sells it for $600 500 miles later.

I installed it, lagged like hell. It was so bad I thought I had the wastegate lines were hooked up wrong till I just unhooked the actuator. You could drive down the road at 55 and stomp it in fourth and it would have NO BOOST till 4500 rpm and even with the line off would make only 18 psi and that was at 6500 rpm.

Two lessions-

1) If a deal is to good to be true it usually is. If someone is selling something almost new for 1/2 off you need to think things through as to why. Don't be blinded by "the deal" your getting, it might just cost you an arm and leg later when you have to redo the work over.

2) BB is no cure for a bad combo. If the motor has problems spooling the turbo at highway speeds while in third there is nothing on earth that is going to get it to spool faster, it's just a **** bad combo.

Give you a point of reference the Reliant has a huge turbo and it just blows the tires away at highway speeds just by mashing the throttle.

I have a buddy follow the car while on road tests and it cracks him up to watch 2 black "streaks" appear from the back of the car at 65-70 mph mph for 100 feet or more when I mash the throttle doing fuel checks.

Combo is everything.

Gary

 

yeah, but that'd be one *ell of a way to get a guys attention on the freeway

 

ok i understand what your saying gary,
but wouln't a large turbo work good in conjunction with a nicely ported big valve head with matching manifolds & say a 56mm TB?

what would you recommend i do?

i'm shooting for thew highest HP but to keep it streetable.

you gave a link to a guy that does the computers & i'm trying to build a setup for a switchable boost car. (even if that means swapping the injectors between race & street if i need to)

but i'm looking for a switch between 250/300hp streetable and 350+ maybe 450 on the track. do you think that's even possible or should i just pick a level & stick with it?

and how likely is it to push a full weight 89 shelby into the 12's?

Also does anyone know if there is a major difference between the 2-piece & 1-piece intake manifold? FM told me that i could port a 1-piece & get the exact same results as porting the 2-piece is this true?

-Chris

 

I also plan to run a big turbAAA when I do the DOHC conversion. I'll need help selecting a turbo too.

 

450 streetable horsepower???? I dont even think thats possible for a street car with an 8 valve head....Brians neon headed car didnt make it to 400 horsepower..however he did have bad ignition breakup and could only get it to 16 psi. But still...450 on a 8 valver is tough...you only need about 250 to run 12's in an omni...bit more for a daytona.

 

the only way to make a car with that much power streetable is to make the engine produce more power N/A....

 

ok i understand what your saying gary,
but wouln't a large turbo work good in conjunction with a nicely ported big valve head with matching manifolds & say a 56mm TB?

Turbo sizing is a balancing act between several different factors, I don't see information about the most important aspect of your car- the intercooler!


> what would you recommend i do?

Find a performance goal (notice I didn't say HP goal) and work towards it.

> but i'm looking for a switch between 250/300hp streetable and 350+ maybe 450 on the track. do you think that's even possible or should i just pick a level & stick with it?

I think you have a very unrealistic goal, 250-300 reasonable and 300 is more then enough to push your Daytona well into the 12's.

350 pushes the ragged edge of reliablity, and 400 is lots of work and buckets of cash.

> Also does anyone know if there is a major difference between the 2-piece & 1-piece intake manifold?

Not enough to loose sleep over.

Consider going for a drive in a car that has been dynoed at 275-300 hp, you will find out it's very fast indeed. If your going to be at SDAC this year I'll take you for a ride in the Daytona.

Gary

 

Hey Gary..is it true that dean stillie ran 10's with a stock g-head?

 

Hey Gary..is it true that dean stillie ran 10's with a stock g-head?

+1mm valves, porting ???

 

I think he had valves but didnt have any porting./

 

Hey Gary..is it true that dean stillie ran 10's with a stock g-head?

That's what he states, I don't see why not.

The Reliant ran 10.4 with a 1 mm oversize valve head, amazing what you can do with 35 psi huh?

I'm dying to get to the track after the car is dialed in, the new big valve head that has been on since last fall for the rained out Cecil events is baddass.

It blows the old head away by a huge margin.

I'll have a video to post later, keep an eye open.

Gary

 

Good Gary...im eager to finally get mine to the track...im going to run about 18 psi on my new kumho street tires. Im really just looking to see what trap, not really looking for a good et on these slipper street tires.

 

I was going for a large spearco front mount.
and an alcohol injection system from a GN

and let me know when & where the SDAC is and i'll be there.

a couple parts guys i know in upstate CT who collect turbo dodges & strip them, told me i needed to hit 400/450 to get 12's that's why i threw out that number.

my goal is to have a daily driver full weight & options that could get to the track & run low 12's possibly high 11's (& show all the people around here who said i couldn't do it) and i definately want a reliable bulletproof setup.
(is that kind of performance possible on street tires???)
and on a wish maintiain good MPG
(something to keep the excitement untill i finish a 10sec GN)

black streaks on the highway doing 65-70 would also be nice

hey if i can go faster & maintain a streetable car then i'm all for it.

I'm willing to toss out some money on it. and basically do a frame off resto. on the car over the next 2 yrs.

my whole thing is that i want to do it right the first time... not spend 700 on a turbo & find out i have to get a bigger one & blow more money.

-Chris

 

ohh i have a slightly used enforcer 1B head & matching intake & exhaust manifolds. I cracked chunks off my laser head & found this replacement cheaper than a stocker on e-bay

do you have any idea how much those are ported?
and what kind of performance i can get out of it?

 

t3/4 50 trim stage II or III exhaust with a .63 housing. is good to 400 hp with a stock cover... more with a full t4 cover.

300 hp on these cars is very streetable with great mileage to boot (25-30mpg on the highway). If you don't spool it, its docile. YTou can reach 300 hp on a stock head... Takes a few mopre #'s of boost, but with the calibrations you can get today... Makes it much easier.

 

black streaks on the highway doing 65-70 would also be nice

Hmm this winter I took the car for a spin when it was about 20 degrees out at university of delaware. I pulled into the huge rest stop right before maryland and turned around. On the onramp I punched the throttle at 4000 rpms in 3rd(bout 50 mph; 14 psi of boost) the car torqued steered like crazy; I looked back and saw a HUGE CLOUD of tire smoke with black streaks on the road. Doesn't take much eh? My tired are slicks now...just got some new ones. So the basic point of this story is to inform you that it doesnt take much more than a solid intercooler and a medium sized turbo(along with a really flowing exhaust system and more fuel) to go fast; these cars have a weight advantage.

 

things required for lotsa HP.
#1 FUEL SYSTEM.. never never never go lean.
#2 INTERCOOLER ,bigger is better to a point..
#3 TURBO. get someone who knows.. needs to match combo.
#4 TIMING/COMPUTER. if it ever detonates. you have astrays..

 

I was going for a large spearco front mount.
and an alcohol injection system from a GN

and let me know when & where the SDAC is and i'll be there.

a couple parts guys i know in upstate CT who collect turbo dodges & strip them, told me i needed to hit 400/450 to get 12's that's why i threw out that number.

-Chris

Large intercooler GOOD

SDAC-13 and/or DV-SDAC

If they told you that you need that much power I'd be leary of what else they tell you. 400hp would send a properly setup nova into the 12's
Did you check out Gary's site at all, here: http://www.thedodgegarage.com/index.html
Go to the left and click on the Daytona under my rides

One last thing (not to start a long debate but....) Why go with the alcohol water injection if your going with a big intercooler and a properly setup combination. You could use a washer pump to spray the OUTSIDE of the intercooler if you want to keep the I/C temps down but if you want a lot of power (not to say that you can't with water inj.) and reliability get a calibration (GAry's making some sweet cals. lately) that'll support your setup with pump gas or race fuel and not worry about if you refilled the bottle or if the tip got clogged or the water froze up or is it really working.

Just my opinon

 

guess i was just thinking about occasionally going extreme with the boost lol

well i never really thought i'd need it for a 300
but like that guy said.... i thought i might need it for that kind of hp


BTW i'm shooting for very low 12's or high 11's